Bo Sandoval: Bo Knows Performance

In this episode of the Keiser Human Performance Podcast, Bo Sandoval shares insights from his experience in strength and conditioning, focusing on how to develop athletes who are not only strong, but resilient and adaptable.

The conversation explores the importance of building well-rounded performance programs that prioritize movement quality, intent, and long-term durability. Bo emphasizes practical coaching strategies, the value of consistency, and how to bridge the gap between theory and real-world application.

From training philosophy to actionable takeaways, this episode provides valuable perspective for coaches, practitioners, and athletes looking to improve performance while maintaining a sustainable approach to training.

0:00:00.320,0:00:05.360
Good morning, Bo Sandoval. How are we doing today? 
I'm doing great, Gabe. Good to see you, man. Yeah,

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nice to see you, too. And before we dive in, I 
got to ask, any good hunting trips this summer

0:00:09.760,0:00:15.680
or anything coming up that you're looking forward 
to? Yeah. Yeah. No, definitely. The summer um is

0:00:15.680,0:00:22.960
really preparation time. So, lots of work on We've 
got two leases that we hunt on here in Texas and

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then just prepping for trips that I'm going to get 
out of state with a little bit with some buddies.

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So, I'll hunt upstate New York this year for the 
first time with some friends up there. There's

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some giant deer that live in upstate New York. 
They're pretty common, 250 to 300 lb. They're

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they get much bigger than what they do down 
here in the south in the deserts and stuff. But,

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um, so I'm excited about that in October. And 
then, yeah, I mean, it'll be a hustle and bustle

0:00:48.560,0:00:55.520
of archery season starting basically the I guess 
it's the September 27th here in Texas. and then

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rifle season starting in November. So, I'll do 
a lot in Texas. I'll get up to New York uh in

0:01:01.600,0:01:07.600
October. And then my family's got a 150year-old 
farm that is on my mother's side of the family

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that's down in South Mississippi. We'll hunt that 
around Thanksgiving, maybe a little again around

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Christmas. So, yeah, it should be fun. Um my my 
11-year-old is really getting into it now. So,

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this year will be kind of a pinnacle year. We 
we're going through hunter safety right now. and

0:01:24.080,0:01:29.680
um he's really getting sharp with a rifle 
and looking forward to having an opportunity

0:01:29.680,0:01:35.200
at a pig or a whitetail this year. So that's a 
different dynamic. Setup's different. You know,

0:01:35.200,0:01:40.240
make sure you get them somewhere where they can 
set up and actually get steady. And whereas we're

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kind of jumping into these, you know, climbing 
stands and and lock on stands with our bows and

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trying to get super tight and close. It's a 
different game trying to get a an 11-year-old

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in a position to where they can try to capitalize. 
So, that's been fun to go through that, but yeah,

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we're looking forward to it. Admittedly, I don't 
know anything about hunting. Um, it's not part of

0:02:00.400,0:02:05.040
my background growing up. So, when you say getting 
prepared for that, the summer's about preparation.

0:02:05.040,0:02:09.520
What does that even look like? What are you 
actually doing to prepare? In states like Texas,

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it's a big baiting state. So, we can we can 
bait and we can plant food plots and things. So,

0:02:14.720,0:02:18.880
it's a lot of that. It's a lot of food plot 
care, trimming shooting lanes, so you can

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actually create setups to try to intercept a 
deer while they're transitioning maybe from a

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bedding area to a feeding area. Whereas like my 
buddies up in New York, they're they're farmers,

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a big egg farmers. So they're they're attractant 
is apples and berries and all the stuff that

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they're growing on their orchards that's already 
there. So they're basically just creating setups

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on how and where they can ambush deer as they come 
through. But so every place is a little different,

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but it's kind of like sports. You know, this is 
the preseason time. You're doing your final prep

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and making sure all your weapons are tuned and 
everything is dialed in so that when you show up

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for game day, you're ready to execute and and uh 
hopefully win. Um, for those that may not know,

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and I actually have a connection, I started as 
an undergrad at the University of Michigan as a

0:03:04.160,0:03:09.840
senior. And one of my first exposures to strength 
conditioning was actually a session with Michigan

0:03:09.840,0:03:14.960
men's lacrosse when Bo was coaching. And I 
remember feeling really inspired as a young coach.

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I mean, the energy of the session, the training, 
it was incredible. So, Bo, as you reflect back

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many years ago, you know, what thoughts come 
to mind or how do you think about that time

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period? One thing, you know, I'm I'm coming to 
an age now, I'm creeping up on 45. I'm 20 plus

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years into the industry and I'm doing a lot of 
reflection. And I would say for things like that,

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and I've heard this a couple of times now, you 
don't realize the impact you positive or negative

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that you may be having on someone that's right 
there at your that's right there at your side,

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you know. And for interns and things like that, I 
can tell you humbly in the beginning as an intern,

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I always got excited when I got to get around 
someone experienced and kind of watch them do

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their thing and then kind of figured out what 
tidbits I wanted to take away from it or things

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that I didn't want to use. I can say when the role 
got flipped and I was the person and then they

0:04:08.720,0:04:13.760
were coming in to watch. In the beginning, I was 
like, "Holy crap, like they're expecting to learn

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something from us. I hope we don't let them down. 
I hope that you know they actually get something,

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take something or we don't know what they've seen 
before. They could walk in like this is a joke.

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I've been around world class conditioning 
before like what are they doing here? Like

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you know so you never know and and so you're 
just wanting to make sure that they're getting

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something out of it. Um but cuz at the time to 
be totally honest I was going through quite a

0:04:38.080,0:04:43.520
learning curve myself. So for those that don't 
know Michigan added men's lacrosse in 2012 or

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13. I had zero background in lacrosse. I did 
have experience with other field-based sports,

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but I spent a lot of time with those coaches prior 
to even formulating the team months ahead of time

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understanding their playing philosophy and how 
they wanted to approach the game and how they use

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different positions and what their job duties were 
so that I could come up with some sort of plan

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for how we were going to prep them from an energy 
system standpoint. So that time frame for me when

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you ask to like think about, you know, how I think 
of it, big learning curve, big responsibilities

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because I was getting put in a position by Mike 
Favor to do some mentoring and and to be able to

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lead not only interns and graduate assistants, 
but also some of our younger assistants that

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were coming on staff at the time. And I take that 
stuff really seriously. I I was really positively

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impact impacted by those that I got to be around 
when I was coming up. And I just wanted to be able

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to offer the same thing. I didn't want to be 
the the weak link in the chain of education,

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you know, as we're trying to pass this thing down. 
So, it's awesome to hear when people say like,

0:05:42.480,0:05:48.240
man, they they got something out of spending a 
couple hours with me when we were in the trenches

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trying to do the thing we do, which is make a a 
performance impact on an athletes life. And so,

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uh, ironically, I got a phone call out of the blue 
yesterday from John Paul, who was our head coach

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for that lacrosse team at the time. you know, 
lacrosse has got a bid into the Olympics and he's

0:06:04.720,0:06:09.840
actually the head coach for the Armenian national 
team. His dad was Armenian. So, yeah, we got to go

0:06:09.840,0:06:14.320
down memory lane literally yesterday. It's crazy 
that you bring that up and ask that question, but

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it brought back a lot of memories. It joged a lot 
of memories and and it was a it was a fun time,

0:06:19.200,0:06:24.320
but I would say definitely still an educational 
time. I would not have labeled myself an expert

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or a you know, a tenure coach or anything like 
that by that mean by that time. I was still very

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much trying to find myself and trying to figure 
out where I could be the most help for those that

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I was servicing. Yeah, absolutely. And it's funny 
you mentioned John Paul because I think maybe a

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few weeks ago I actually saw Andy Moscow. Remember 
Andy? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. At a gym nearby here in

0:06:46.800,0:06:51.440
Chicago. Just walking through the gym. So it kind 
of those things are all happening around the same

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time. Such a fun group, right? Yeah. Small world. 
Such a fun group. a ton of energy and like you

0:06:56.880,0:07:01.520
can imagine me like my first exposure to this was 
that session. I'm like okay like I think I really

0:07:01.520,0:07:04.960
like this. This is really cool. Like I want to 
keep this going. So that was really awesome. So

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number one, thank you. But number two, you know, 
it's hard to find a coach who has a more diverse

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background and more experiences coaching. I mean, 
in terms of where you've lived geographically,

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um the type of athletes you've worked with, the 
wide range, the spectrum of athletes you've worked

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with. So, um, what would you say, you know, 
was the biggest difference between Bo then and

0:07:26.800,0:07:31.600
the coach and practitioner that Bo Sandaval has 
become now? And I know you had mentioned you're

0:07:31.600,0:07:35.120
really learning early on. You wouldn't even 
consider yourself an expert, but now sitting

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here as sounds like you'd consider yourself an 
expert. What changed for you along that timeline?

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I think as you gain experience and you add 
depth to your toolbox, and that's one thing

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that practical experience will give you, not to 
mention, you're still stacking the deck on your

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on your educational toolbox from whatever you may 
be reading or listening to or symposiums you may

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be attending, but all that's kind of compounded 
now. And so, the biggest difference is, you know,

0:08:02.880,0:08:07.760
the depth of that toolbox and having it at your 
fingertips. And along come with experience comes

0:08:07.760,0:08:13.760
patience. And so being patient enough to take a 
good observation and better assessments and really

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assessing what's in front of you first to identify 
problems, then it's just like fixing a house,

0:08:19.760,0:08:24.560
right? Oh, I've got a tool to fix that thing. 
I'll reach in my toolbox and I grab it and now

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I can go to work. And so having the patience to 
assess and understand what's going on, but then

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also having the depth and the toolbox due to the 
experience and due the the diversity of athletes

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I've been in front of, that's really served me 
well. I think coaches get empowered by that,

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too. When I have discussions with and some of 
the most difficult-minded coaches, and we know

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who those are, they're competitive for a reason, 
and competitive people can be some of the most

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difficult people to kind of connect and deal with. 
But one of the things that has always kind of

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resonated is the fact that they know I'm pulling 
from experiences that come from several different

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layers of athleticism. So because typically 
they're looking at a particular problem. Like

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if I'm talking to a softball coach about a 
pitcher, they're looking at like, why? Okay,

0:09:08.640,0:09:13.360
I need to get more out of this left leg or I need 
to be able to rotate here more and I'm not seeing

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that. I break it down on film and I can analyze it 
in slow-mo, but how do you actually get them to do

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that? How do you get motor recruitment to happen 
to where they actually do that? I'm like, well,

0:09:23.040,0:09:28.400
let's see. I've worked with rotational athletes 
and gymnastics and diving and wrestling and the

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shot put hammer and javelin and throwing. So, you 
start to just p pull all these little tricks and

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little drills and things that you've done 
historically that can pinpoint that area

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that they're looking at. And they don't care that 
you've I've people always say like coaches have a

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hard time if you don't have any familiarity with 
their sport. When you have familiarity with the

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problem that they're after, they don't care that 
you don't have any softball pitching experience.

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They don't care that I never played lacrosse. 
Um, it's can I understand their problem and do

0:09:58.480,0:10:03.680
I have a background, a tool set to say I I got 
something for that. Let me tell you about my

0:10:03.680,0:10:10.160
experience working with this type of athlete who 
who may actually specialize in that thing more

0:10:10.160,0:10:15.840
than your pitcher or more than the athlete that 
you're identifying right now. So, it's always

0:10:15.840,0:10:22.000
served me well to get in those conversations. And 
coaches, you hear the analogies in every sport.

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Football's really, they're probably the the worst 
or best at it with analogies. They want to go to

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war. Every down is a battle. It's a fist fight. 
You hear the same thing. You hear, you know,

0:10:32.560,0:10:39.120
a women's basketball to, hey, in the paint, it's 
a fist fight. It's a war. So coming from an uh a

0:10:39.120,0:10:44.080
combat sport background working with wrestling, 
taekwond do judo boxing and then MMA here in the

0:10:44.080,0:10:50.080
last 10 years um that always resonates. They 
think that like you know we've got we've we've

0:10:50.080,0:10:55.840
understood the mentality of what it's like to go 
into a a fight or a handtohand combative sport.

0:10:55.840,0:11:01.440
And not to say that you employ anything that they 
would employ when they're training for boxing or

0:11:01.440,0:11:04.800
when they're training for wrestling. It's just 
the fact that you have a familiarity with that

0:11:04.800,0:11:09.760
mindset. Um, so that's always served me well 
from a mental standpoint. And then like I said,

0:11:09.760,0:11:14.640
just having the depth and the toolbox and the 
diversity of exposure to different genres of

0:11:14.640,0:11:21.760
sport. Those conversations always seem to go well. 
Yeah, I'm new to the to the sport, you know. Yeah,

0:11:21.760,0:11:26.800
I like a couple of the things you said there. Just 
the keys, observing, being patient, not having to

0:11:26.800,0:11:30.720
find solutions immediately and inserting yourself, 
but really listening, it sounds like. And then

0:11:30.720,0:11:34.400
having that depth of that toolbox is great. And 
I like one thing that resonated with me that you

0:11:34.400,0:11:38.160
said was having familiar with the problem, not the 
sport itself. And I think we're seeing a lot of

0:11:38.160,0:11:43.200
especially in professional organizations. A lot of 
organizations hiring from other sports right now,

0:11:43.200,0:11:47.520
that's becoming more and more common just because 
maybe they see problems in a different way or can

0:11:47.520,0:11:53.840
find different solutions for what is a problem 
and not really the sport itself. I think some

0:11:53.840,0:11:59.280
of it too is it's a comfort zone thing when they 
hire folks. It's a comfort thing to know, well,

0:11:59.280,0:12:03.600
this person knows basketball as much as I know 
basketball, so this is a good fit. They might be a

0:12:03.600,0:12:08.640
shitty strength coach, but it's a good fit because 
of a comfort familiarity thing. I think coach,

0:12:08.640,0:12:14.640
some coaches are getting better at I need a 
practitioner. I need some I need a mechanic to go

0:12:14.640,0:12:19.520
and fix the mechanics or, you know, I need a baker 
to come in and bake better bread. They're starting

0:12:19.520,0:12:24.720
to figure out that like I don't really care. 
I coach basketball. I am the basketball coach.

0:12:24.720,0:12:29.920
I don't really care what they know X's and O's 
basketball-wise. Can you provide me a physically

0:12:29.920,0:12:35.600
better product? Can you provide me with something 
that's more resilient that won't break down when I

0:12:35.600,0:12:40.000
play the style of basketball that I want to play 
or football or whatever it is? I think coaches

0:12:40.000,0:12:44.880
are getting a little more savvy to that. They're 
not getting the wool pulled over quite as much in

0:12:44.880,0:12:50.080
terms of I'm a basketball guy or I'm a football 
guy. That's why, you know, instead they're

0:12:50.080,0:12:54.400
starting to understand that there's shortcomings 
to that and like I need a practitioner. I need

0:12:54.400,0:12:58.960
someone who's going to do the things that a 
strength and conditioning professional or a

0:12:58.960,0:13:03.360
physical therapist or whatever it might be that 
they're trained to do. That's what I need them to

0:13:03.360,0:13:09.840
be able to do. So, I I think there's still a lot 
out there that they're they have comfort zones and

0:13:09.840,0:13:15.280
they familiarity is a big one. And just knowing 
that this person played basketball, they come from

0:13:15.280,0:13:19.840
a basketball or they played football, they come 
from a football background. But an interesting

0:13:19.840,0:13:25.040
observation, and I've had this discussion with 
some of my 60 and 70-year-old mentors, is some

0:13:25.040,0:13:29.680
of the best players don't end up being the best 
coaches. That rule gets broken from time to time,

0:13:29.680,0:13:34.480
but you don't have to be a phenomenal player in 
order to be a phenomenal coach or instructor or

0:13:34.480,0:13:39.040
whatever that thing is. You don't need to be the 
strongest person in the world to be an incredible

0:13:39.040,0:13:43.120
strength coach or the fittest in the world to 
be an incredible strength coach. So, but what

0:13:43.120,0:13:48.320
you do need to be is knowledgeable. You need to be 
tactical. Um, and you need to be able to connect

0:13:48.320,0:13:54.080
dots between how your coaches want to play the 
sport and what the physical makeup of those people

0:13:54.080,0:13:58.960
they have in front of them. Can we make those two 
marry each other? Can I get that personnel to be

0:13:58.960,0:14:02.800
able to do their job the way that coach wants to 
do it? Because not every coach wants to use their

0:14:02.800,0:14:08.640
quarterback the same way. Not every coach wants to 
use their, you know, their post players the same

0:14:08.640,0:14:13.120
way. So, understand how do they want to use them. 
Okay, now let me physically prepare them to play

0:14:13.120,0:14:17.440
that way, I think, is a better approach. and and 
coaches are starting to get a better understanding

0:14:17.440,0:14:21.760
of that. But there's always you look, there's 
always going to be the issues in athletics. When

0:14:21.760,0:14:26.560
you have non-experts making expert decisions, 
there's always going to be issues, right? So,

0:14:26.560,0:14:29.520
you have a coach that doesn't know strength and 
conditioning, but they're making decisions on

0:14:29.520,0:14:33.200
strength and conditioning. There's always going to 
be issues with that. Same way they make decisions

0:14:33.200,0:14:37.200
on medical and they shouldn't be making decisions 
when it comes to medical. There's always going to

0:14:37.200,0:14:40.240
be issues with that. So, we're never going 
to totally get away for that. I do think

0:14:40.240,0:14:45.360
it's improving in some areas just due to better 
leadership and better management. Yeah. And I

0:14:45.360,0:14:49.120
think resources, too. I think you're starting to 
see, like you mentioned, having a mechanic to do

0:14:49.120,0:14:53.040
the mechanic things, having a baker to actually do 
the baking. Maybe in the past it was a baker who

0:14:53.040,0:14:58.800
was also cooking. Yep. But I think you're starting 
to see some specialty roles now where like, hey,

0:14:58.800,0:15:03.600
this is a speed person that's coming in to do this 
is a speed expert coming to help with speed. And

0:15:03.600,0:15:08.240
I think you're just seeing with more resources, 
maybe more hiring for those specific roles. But

0:15:08.240,0:15:12.560
yeah, like you mentioned, like context is super 
important and defining things, right? you want

0:15:12.560,0:15:16.720
this quarterback to play well or you want him 
to, you know, roll out and what does that look

0:15:16.720,0:15:20.480
like? Like let's define and break down what this 
actually looks like and how it's important within

0:15:20.480,0:15:24.880
the context of this offense, right? Um, and 
then being on the, you know, having the same

0:15:24.880,0:15:28.880
terminology and and being able to communicate 
well. So, no, I appreciate your thoughts on that.

0:15:28.880,0:15:34.240
And you mentioned education toolbox. So, I'm going 
to pivot here for a second just as you have done

0:15:34.240,0:15:40.560
where you pivoted into academia and at Texas A&M. 
And now as I understand it, you have a role as

0:15:40.560,0:15:46.640
professor of practice. So could you please expand 
on what exactly that is and your role now within

0:15:46.640,0:15:53.440
uh academia at Texas&M? Sure. I'll first tip 
my hat to the PhDs because that's not what I

0:15:53.440,0:15:59.200
am or my title would say professor. So professor 
of practice I'm on the pl practical application

0:15:59.200,0:16:04.480
side of things. And so what kind of inspired me 
a little bit about what they were approaching me

0:16:04.480,0:16:09.360
with when they offered me this position was that 
they were trying to put a heftier investment on

0:16:09.360,0:16:15.840
the practical applica application of education 
to accommodate what they're already doing very

0:16:15.840,0:16:21.200
well in terms of re and lectures and study. And 
so you know uh a little over a year ago year and

0:16:21.200,0:16:27.200
a half ago maybe almost two years now I kind of 
helped a little bit with nudging Dr. Brian man um

0:16:27.200,0:16:31.920
for coming over to our kinesis department from the 
University of Miami and that was kind of the start

0:16:31.920,0:16:38.320
of it and he's really kind of kicked off this 
strong relationship between our heavy research

0:16:38.320,0:16:46.800
personnel and some of our applied personnel and so 
my role was kind of to further nudge that. We have

0:16:46.800,0:16:53.040
a what I would call a solid education program when 
it comes to prepping strength coaches but nobody

0:16:53.040,0:16:57.840
knows about it. I mean, we average like six to 
12 kids a year that are in our M's program. It's

0:16:57.840,0:17:02.080
relatively small, but that's primarily because 
there really hasn't ever been like a massive

0:17:02.080,0:17:10.000
emphasis on pushing it now. Um, our department 
chair and dean are making a hefty push in trying

0:17:10.000,0:17:15.040
to make this thing a destination. If someone 
wants to go get an education, a higher degree

0:17:15.040,0:17:20.000
of education in strength and conditioning, we want 
to start shifting the mindset of I need to be at

0:17:20.000,0:17:26.080
Texas A&M. that's where they're offering my best 
bang for my buck in terms of practical experience

0:17:26.080,0:17:32.480
and intellectual knowhow. Um, and so that's what 
we're working on building. That's what my role

0:17:32.480,0:17:38.320
is designed to help sort of supplement. I'll 
be teaching a master's level practicum course,

0:17:38.320,0:17:45.440
which is M's um, C students that are pursuing a a 
uh, career in strength and conditioning. It'll be

0:17:45.440,0:17:51.360
50/50 lecture and practical, even though a lot 
of those lectures will have practical parts to

0:17:51.360,0:17:56.880
them as well. So, my classroom is actually a wait 
room within our physical education building. So,

0:17:56.880,0:18:01.920
we've got a lot of things to play with, a 
lot of scenarios to create to actually get

0:18:01.920,0:18:08.000
their hands dirty and what they'll they will 
actually see if they sign a contract and say,

0:18:08.000,0:18:12.480
"I am a full-time strength coach at this 
institution." So, we plan to prepare them that

0:18:12.480,0:18:18.240
way. But then also jogging a lot of thought. This 
is, you know, we're in we're in an ever evolving

0:18:18.240,0:18:22.400
industry. Posing a lot of questions, not just, 
hey, here's what you should do, but what would

0:18:22.400,0:18:29.280
you do if you see this? Or even posing questions 
I run into today. I have trouble deciphering this,

0:18:29.280,0:18:33.680
so we're going to dive into it together. Because 
the reality is some of these that are coming in,

0:18:33.680,0:18:37.760
they're bright kids, and they're not all kids. 
We've got a lot in our program because of our

0:18:37.760,0:18:42.720
cadet program and our cadet history. We have a lot 
of them that are have already got degrees. They've

0:18:42.720,0:18:47.600
spent 10 12 years in the military, retired, come 
back, want to get a master's degree. These are

0:18:47.600,0:18:53.120
highly intellectual people. So, I'm really excited 
about the cross-pollination of the age demographic

0:18:53.120,0:18:57.840
that we have in this c in these courses, but also 
the backgrounds and the different things they've

0:18:57.840,0:19:02.560
been exposed to and what they've seen. You know, 
some of our veterans have been through, you know,

0:19:02.560,0:19:07.040
three or four different types of selection for 
special operations. So they've seen a lot of

0:19:07.040,0:19:12.480
assessment and testing and training and prep and 
preparatory processes. So I think it'll be fun

0:19:12.480,0:19:16.880
to get that all in a melting pot and see what we 
kind of cook out of it. On top of that, I'll also

0:19:16.880,0:19:23.120
heavily be a a role player in placing our students 
in internships and fellowships across the country.

0:19:23.120,0:19:26.880
We've got some pretty strong connections in the 
state of Texas and high schools and things like

0:19:26.880,0:19:31.520
that. I think we're we're going to make a push 
to get more adventurous using some of my rolodex

0:19:31.520,0:19:37.280
as well to get kids outside the state um and some 
bigger institutions, some private organizations,

0:19:37.280,0:19:41.760
whether it be professional sports or you know 
there's nowadays there's a high performance

0:19:41.760,0:19:47.760
team with almost everything like Red Bull has 
one, PBR has one, the UFC has one, Toyota Racing

0:19:47.760,0:19:53.680
Development has one. They're they're all over. Not 
to mention the education, you know, the the your

0:19:53.680,0:19:58.560
typical four-year colleges and things that we can 
find opportunities in. So, really trying to meet

0:19:58.560,0:20:03.360
the student where they're at and getting finding 
out where their itches are and trying to put them

0:20:03.360,0:20:07.040
in a position where they can go and scratch 
it. I think this day and age, if you want to

0:20:07.040,0:20:11.280
be competitive in terms of other institutions and 
what they're offering, it's the experience. How

0:20:11.280,0:20:16.720
much more of a wow experience can we provide them 
aside from just a solid education while they're

0:20:16.720,0:20:20.880
here? So, I'm excited to dive into that. It's a 
little different. It's still coaching, but I'm

0:20:20.880,0:20:26.720
coaching coaches instead of coaching players every 
day. What are you going by? Professor Sandival,

0:20:26.720,0:20:31.680
Professor Bo, or coach? I tell them just call 
me Bo. The whole professor thing is still I'm

0:20:31.680,0:20:35.600
sure I'll get used to it and then I'll get more 
comfortable. But yeah, no, I I feel like I haven't

0:20:35.600,0:20:39.120
earned that yet. I haven't actually taught anyone 
yet. So, I talked to you in a year. You go, "Yeah,

0:20:39.120,0:20:45.040
they call me Doc." Yeah, there you go. There 
you go. We'll see. But that's super cool. So,

0:20:45.040,0:20:50.320
as you think about all of that and as you think 
about your friends around the country, what you've

0:20:50.320,0:20:55.280
seen at different colleges or institutions, you 
mentioned making yourself competitive, what to

0:20:55.280,0:20:59.920
you was missing elsewhere that you believe that 
you're bringing to this program here. Is it just

0:20:59.920,0:21:06.080
the blend and the cross-pollination? You know, I 
won't be naive and and and assume to know that I

0:21:06.080,0:21:10.640
know what's going on at all those other places. is 
I just hear commentary from student experience and

0:21:10.640,0:21:15.760
we look I mean for the last 20 years I've gotten 
students from all over the place my grad students

0:21:15.760,0:21:22.000
my interns they've come from all walks of life 
and so some of the commonalities is I would say

0:21:22.000,0:21:27.040
the biggest one is the ability to connect the dot 
between what you're learning academically and how

0:21:27.040,0:21:32.320
you apply that and what's realistic right the 
reality is a lot of our peer-reviewed research

0:21:32.320,0:21:38.000
comes from these very controlled studies it's 
it's very controlled it's very granular in terms

0:21:38.000,0:21:45.280
of observing one maybe two particular objectives 
whereas now we're in this working world of chaos

0:21:45.280,0:21:50.720
where everything is moving we got moving targets 
all around us and so trying to hyperfocus on a

0:21:50.720,0:21:55.600
couple of really influential objectives so that 
we can go and play a game better at live you don't

0:21:55.600,0:21:59.680
get any redoss you don't get to oh that assessment 
didn't go correct well that time is gone you got

0:21:59.680,0:22:04.240
to you got to kind of ret time it and decide when 
you're going to do it again or that session was

0:22:04.240,0:22:08.160
about 80% accurate well you don't get to redo 
that you've got to figure out, okay, how do I

0:22:08.160,0:22:13.280
take that 80% accuracy of that session, try to 
get more accuracy out of the next few sequential

0:22:13.280,0:22:19.200
sessions and essentially culminate to a improved 
outcome at the end of this 8 weeks or 6 weeks or

0:22:19.200,0:22:24.320
whatever it is we've got prep time getting ready 
for for whatever we're going into. So that is the

0:22:24.320,0:22:29.680
reality. It is more chaotic. There's more moving 
variables and moving objectives and you've got

0:22:29.680,0:22:35.680
to be able to make decisions on the fly. I think 
the other thing is when you look at studies, it's

0:22:35.680,0:22:40.800
in a condensed time frame. Most studies, I mean, 
the the where they're taking all their data in,

0:22:40.800,0:22:45.840
they're less than a year. Very rarely do you find 
studies that are over a 10-year period of time.

0:22:45.840,0:22:49.600
Now, you start getting into like normative data 
and things like that, you'll get into more of

0:22:49.600,0:22:54.400
those studies that are for a long-term period 
of time. And so when you think about a coach

0:22:54.400,0:22:58.960
that's planning on starting a career in college 
athletics, which is average four to six years,

0:22:58.960,0:23:03.360
you're working with an athlete, you kind of want 
to figure out like, how do I make an impact over

0:23:03.360,0:23:08.320
that period of time? Cuz everybody gets hellbent 
on making an impact in that first like 6 months

0:23:08.320,0:23:13.680
they're on the job, that first semester. But the 
reality is you're not going to make real long-term

0:23:13.680,0:23:18.480
improvements, motor skill improvements, mechanical 
improvements, that short a time frame. So,

0:23:18.480,0:23:22.800
you've got to be able to kind of have a 30,000 
foot view and look at how you're making an impact

0:23:22.800,0:23:28.000
on a program across four to six years. But 
then also, you still need to be able to dial

0:23:28.000,0:23:33.040
in and look at those short time frames when you're 
trying to move some of those more maybe mechanical

0:23:33.040,0:23:39.280
objectives around a 40 time or a vertical jump 
metric or a you know a 1 RM or something like

0:23:39.280,0:23:45.360
that. Those can be much more acute. I do think 
even some of those acute metrics though looking

0:23:45.360,0:23:50.720
at them widespread like were we way up were we 
able to stay within striking how frequently were

0:23:50.720,0:23:56.000
we able to stay within striking distance of that 
1 RM throughout the calendar year to me that's a

0:23:56.000,0:24:01.680
that's a pretty high quality program if you can 
do that means your your readiness is high you're

0:24:01.680,0:24:08.320
staying within striking distance of being at your 
capable best not just one time in the summertime

0:24:08.320,0:24:16.320
coach I've squatted 400 and ran a 4640 within a 
day of each other, but you're 70% of that when

0:24:16.320,0:24:21.680
we're actually playing games, or you're 65% of 
that when we're playing games. So to me, looking

0:24:21.680,0:24:27.120
at data from a big picture perspective, looking at 
your impact as a coach and a practitioner from a

0:24:27.120,0:24:32.480
big picture perspective should be more of how we 
measure success, not just, hey, we just finished

0:24:32.480,0:24:39.200
summertime and we got, you know, we got 60 of 
our 80 guys benching over 400 and squatting over

0:24:39.200,0:24:45.280
500 and that's great, but what does that tell us 
about what we're doing in November and October?

0:24:45.280,0:24:52.160
So anyhow, that's, you know, I I want students 
and upandcomers to understand that so that they're

0:24:52.160,0:24:57.040
taking the and valuing, that's a big one, valuing 
the intellectual knowledge they're picking up in

0:24:57.040,0:25:02.240
school, but they're responsible about how they're 
using it and how they're evaluating it as they're

0:25:02.240,0:25:07.600
in the practical daily application, all the chaos 
as a practitioner. I think that's a lot of the

0:25:07.600,0:25:12.400
big questions that we get. What you hear kids say 
that, especially the younger coaches, they always

0:25:12.400,0:25:17.200
did. Man, I what I learned in grad school hasn't 
served me yet. It's a really naive statement. They

0:25:17.200,0:25:20.880
wouldn't even have a foothold to be able to speak 
the language that they're speaking had they not

0:25:20.880,0:25:26.320
taken some of that coursework. I hear the same 
thing about accreditation. The letters are good,

0:25:26.320,0:25:33.360
but they don't really serve me. Well, you had to 
go through a series of information accumulation to

0:25:33.360,0:25:38.560
be able to get that accreditation. It taught you 
a skill to be able to focus on something, learn

0:25:38.560,0:25:43.200
a series of concepts so that you could accomplish 
this accreditation. Whether you value that or not,

0:25:43.200,0:25:48.560
that's what you're teaching an athlete to do 
every day. Um, so there, you know, teaching them

0:25:48.560,0:25:55.360
the real side of why we value accreditation, why 
we value education, but how we take it and drill

0:25:55.360,0:26:01.280
it down into a usable form of application. That 
that's what we hope to provide them. I don't know

0:26:01.280,0:26:06.720
if other institutions val or where they put that 
on their priority list. I just know it's going to

0:26:06.720,0:26:13.680
be a big priority for us. I remember Mike Favor 
always talking about that like accreditation like

0:26:13.680,0:26:19.280
you have the letters and sure but this actually 
shows us that you you know give a [ __ ] you

0:26:19.280,0:26:22.960
know that you're willing to take the time to learn 
something and accumulate information and knowledge

0:26:22.960,0:26:29.600
like you had just mentioned. And these are high 
liability jobs. Like when people can get hurt or

0:26:29.600,0:26:34.720
you know uh or injured or anything like that. It's 
a high liability job. Some you may not know it but

0:26:34.720,0:26:39.840
someone is paying a hefty bill of insurance 
because you're there doing that. And there's

0:26:39.840,0:26:43.520
nothing in a weight room that can't kill you. 
Everything people look at the most passive piece

0:26:43.520,0:26:48.240
of equipment. It can kill you if you're if you're 
not paying attention to it. And so these are high

0:26:48.240,0:26:53.200
liability positions. So your accreditation and 
your education first and foremost gets your foot

0:26:53.200,0:26:58.560
in the door so that you're even qualified to 
do the things that we're doing. Your practical

0:26:58.560,0:27:04.000
application is what keeps your job. That's what 
keeps you in this industry for 20 years or 30

0:27:04.000,0:27:09.680
years or 50 years or whatever. Because you start 
building a track record of shitty applications,

0:27:09.680,0:27:13.440
shitty results and things along you won't 
you won't be around for long. You're going

0:27:13.440,0:27:19.840
to be looking for a job frequently or you'll be 
unemployed. So for all the ones that are like,

0:27:19.840,0:27:25.120
I just don't see the point in getting a CSES or 
a college strength coach or what blah blah blah,

0:27:25.120,0:27:31.920
it's it's it's to show a very willing 
paying employer who's going to pay a hefty

0:27:31.920,0:27:37.840
bill of liability insurance that you're at least 
accredited to be able to do the job. So you're not

0:27:37.840,0:27:44.560
high risk. But then how you apply that information 
is what's going to tell them they've got the right

0:27:44.560,0:27:49.440
person and they want to try to keep them for the 
next 10 to 15 years. Yeah. I also like what you

0:27:49.440,0:27:54.240
mentioned about the 30,000 foot view. You know, 
as a young coach, you're so eager to get get in

0:27:54.240,0:28:00.080
there and you finally have athletes of quote your 
own. Um and you're so ready to make an impact,

0:28:00.080,0:28:05.280
but the reality is like you mentioned at age 18, 
age 17, it's going to take a few years. Like this

0:28:05.280,0:28:10.080
is about development over that uh time span. 
And it's easy to lose sight of that, especially

0:28:10.080,0:28:17.600
as a young, eager coach. You know that a lot of 
that mentality comes from short-term gains. So,

0:28:17.600,0:28:22.240
it's no secret, man. One of the easiest things in 
the world to do is to make someone strong. I mean,

0:28:22.240,0:28:28.240
progressive over overload is undefeated for 300 
years plus, right? It's the easiest thing to

0:28:28.240,0:28:32.640
do. Well, then you take our demographic, 
17 to 22 years old. That is the easiest

0:28:32.640,0:28:38.240
demographic to apply progressive overload to show 
a strength increase. And so you get these coaches,

0:28:38.240,0:28:42.400
they get this self-gratification because they 
just took a kid who's never trained before,

0:28:42.400,0:28:48.400
who's 18 years old through an 8-week program and 
they put 40% on this and 80% on this and 60% and

0:28:48.400,0:28:53.520
they gain this much muscle and this much weight 
and they're like, "My program is magical." No,

0:28:53.520,0:28:59.280
man. You just found the most opportunistic 
organism on Earth at that time frame to expose

0:28:59.280,0:29:03.440
them to. You could I've seen shitty programs 
work like that. I've seen really good programs

0:29:03.440,0:29:08.400
work like that. It's not so much the program. It's 
just the fact that we're capitalizing on a really

0:29:08.400,0:29:14.800
critical time frame in their life. Um, so you 
really want to understand how influential you are.

0:29:14.800,0:29:20.880
Do that over a 10-year period because once they 
start getting 23, 24, 25, start working with some

0:29:20.880,0:29:25.920
professional athletes and see how much you move 
the needle. Um, it's going to be much smaller and

0:29:25.920,0:29:30.880
you'll really start to figure out what's making an 
impact and what's not. Um, because anything will

0:29:30.880,0:29:36.240
make an impact on a 17 to 22 year old. We've seen 
it. Now, I mean, how many examples do we have of

0:29:36.240,0:29:42.240
those freaks that don't train at all and they're 
17 to 22? Just the sport itself is physically

0:29:42.240,0:29:47.760
conditioning them and honing them in and getting 
them to go through different stages of hypertrophy

0:29:47.760,0:29:54.320
without touching a weight. And so, um, that's what 
when when I, you know, I just don't want people to

0:29:54.320,0:30:00.000
get this naive idea that, um, you get a 17 to 
22 year old to go through these improvements,

0:30:00.000,0:30:06.640
you've just mastered how to alter physiology. It's 
like, eh, try that on someone that's tenured. Try

0:30:06.640,0:30:12.560
that on someone that's got, you know, 50,000 
hours of playing the sport over the last 15

0:30:12.560,0:30:17.680
years and see if it works. Yeah. No question. 
I mean, I saw that in college basketball. Like,

0:30:17.680,0:30:21.680
you get a freshman that comes in and all of 
a sudden they're practicing harder, they're

0:30:21.680,0:30:26.160
sprinting harder, they're jumping harder, they're 
banging against other guys like and then they're

0:30:26.160,0:30:29.920
actually eating and now food is now, you know, 
readily available at all times for them, which

0:30:29.920,0:30:34.560
is really a critical component of it. And yeah, 
they could go they could go look at the weight and

0:30:34.560,0:30:39.040
they're probably going to grow after practicing 
that hard. So I think for sure like there has to

0:30:39.040,0:30:42.720
be this appreciation for what's actually happening 
on the field. And that's cool. I think it's it's

0:30:42.720,0:30:46.320
great to know that there are a lot of students out 
there that will be going through this program that

0:30:46.320,0:30:50.880
can hear from you. Someone like you who has worked 
in the Olympic setting too and in those cycles

0:30:50.880,0:30:54.560
where this is this isn't just even one Olympic 
cycle. We're talking about someone who's trying

0:30:54.560,0:30:59.040
to be competitive over a long period of time and 
go to maybe two Olympics, three Olympics even. So,

0:30:59.040,0:31:04.080
I think it's really cool to hear your perspective 
and I imagine, you know, this is a really exciting

0:31:04.080,0:31:09.600
opportunity here at Texas A&M. Yeah, it is. I'm 
excited cuz I I kind of get to put the white

0:31:09.600,0:31:15.920
belt back on a little bit. There's some really 
tenured and and very strategic faculty that are

0:31:15.920,0:31:21.040
here and they've been super welcoming. I mean, I 
I haven't met I haven't felt unwelcome around any

0:31:21.040,0:31:25.120
of them yet. I've met most of them, but just kind 
of settling in and finding my routine and figuring

0:31:25.120,0:31:30.400
out where I can be impactful and, you know, trying 
to write curriculums and get the day-to-day all

0:31:30.400,0:31:35.120
set in stone. That's that's a new thing. It's a 
different kind of curriculum than what I'm used to

0:31:35.120,0:31:40.960
writing in terms of sets and reps and rest periods 
and things along those lines. So, um, I also I

0:31:40.960,0:31:46.240
don't want to be one of those that shies away from 
difficult questions. You know, even things I may

0:31:46.240,0:31:53.360
not have the answer for. So, I really want to try 
to create an inviting an inviting environment for

0:31:53.360,0:31:58.560
these students where we can kind of yeah, I'll 
have a track that we're going to go down, but if

0:31:58.560,0:32:03.840
you've got explorative questions, let's throw them 
out there and let's start kind of nipping at some

0:32:03.840,0:32:09.440
things that maybe aren't common conversation in 
some of these classrooms. So, um, and I do believe

0:32:09.440,0:32:14.080
if we run into things that we don't have an 
immediate answer, I've got an incredible list of

0:32:14.080,0:32:20.720
colleagues and other faculty right down the hall 
that can help us sniff out the answers. Now that

0:32:20.720,0:32:25.680
you've had the chance to, and I know you're always 
going to be connected to coaching, you always will

0:32:25.680,0:32:32.000
be working with some athletes in some capacity. 
Yep. Most likely. Um, now that you've had a chance

0:32:32.000,0:32:38.880
to quote take take a step back, you know, and just 
see everything maybe on that 30,000 foot view,

0:32:38.880,0:32:43.840
what thoughts do you have about performance 
coaching or strength conditioning? Have you

0:32:43.840,0:32:48.000
do you feel like you've been able to learn a 
little bit more or see anything in a different

0:32:48.000,0:32:53.040
light than when you were so consumed with the 
schedule and working with athletes? I mean,

0:32:53.040,0:32:59.840
I'll take it on the personal side first. We get 
so gracious when we have like as a coach when we

0:32:59.840,0:33:05.280
have time off or if we get a holiday or something 
like we're so gracious and then you come over to a

0:33:05.280,0:33:11.760
world like this and we're like wait a minute I was 
doing that many hours a week for that many years

0:33:11.760,0:33:17.920
for that much pay and that little time off and 
I was gracious. I was like I'm I was kind of in

0:33:17.920,0:33:22.400
some scenarios and not not so much me but others 
that are out there. They're almost like stealing

0:33:22.400,0:33:28.640
from them. This is a much more, you know, in 
academia, it's much more of a nine-to-five,

0:33:28.640,0:33:34.000
you know, if the kids are off school, you're off 
school. So, getting exposed to that and the work

0:33:34.000,0:33:38.560
life balance that offers compared to coaching. 
Now, I would never take any of my coaching back.

0:33:38.560,0:33:43.600
I love I love it. I still love it to this day. If 
a tremendous opportunity opens up, my ass will be

0:33:43.600,0:33:49.520
right back in there doing it again. But with that 
being said, um I'm definitely much more weary. I

0:33:49.520,0:33:54.720
know the worth and the value of what I bring to 
the table. And if you want that, one, you're going

0:33:54.720,0:34:01.040
to pay for it. And two, you're going to pay for 
my time as well. Not just the status quo of what

0:34:01.040,0:34:05.840
other coaches are doing. I don't care what other 
coaches are doing. You've asked B Sandival to come

0:34:05.840,0:34:10.400
to the table and do what he does and offer what 
he does. So, you're going to pay for that. And

0:34:10.400,0:34:14.480
you're als you're not just going to pay for that 
monetarily. You're going to pay for that in time

0:34:14.480,0:34:20.560
because I'm at a stage where I do not want to take 
any more time away from my kids and from my wife.

0:34:20.560,0:34:25.040
I know people kind of stumble upon that and 
they realize that at a certain point. Now that

0:34:25.040,0:34:29.440
I've gotten exposed to how it works in other 
areas of employment, I'm not willing to kind

0:34:29.440,0:34:35.680
of give a lot of that back up. The other thing is 
I would say um I don't regret anything about any

0:34:35.680,0:34:40.480
of the coaching decisions or even some of the 
positions that I've taken over the years. But

0:34:40.480,0:34:45.920
what I have become is a little bit more weary 
particularly when it comes to leadership. your

0:34:45.920,0:34:53.840
job and how effective you are is directly affected 
by leadership. So if your leadership doesn't have

0:34:53.840,0:35:00.000
a familiarity with excuse me with what you do or 
how you do it or how you make an impact or they

0:35:00.000,0:35:05.120
don't have a familiarity of who you're impacting 
that's going to make a dent on how you deliver

0:35:05.120,0:35:10.640
what you deliver. And so unfortunately man this 
day and age in college athletics anybody can be

0:35:10.640,0:35:15.120
an administrator. anybody. It's It's even worse 
than coaching when it comes to the good old boy

0:35:15.120,0:35:20.160
system. I'm just going to hire my friend. He's 
got a finance background. He's got a whatever

0:35:20.160,0:35:24.080
a compliance background. You know, he knows 
something about sports, so he'd be good at

0:35:24.080,0:35:28.080
managing all these strength coaches and all these 
medical personnel and all these sport coaches.

0:35:28.080,0:35:34.480
Wrong answer. Like the unfortunately this day and 
age, they don't really have like a ringer to go

0:35:34.480,0:35:39.040
through to be an administrator. We got ringers 
to go through to be a strength coach. You're not

0:35:39.040,0:35:42.640
going to just walk in and be like, "I'm Gabe. I 
got a really good education. Hire me. I'm going

0:35:42.640,0:35:48.160
to be the strength coach for Texas football. It 
doesn't work like that. Well, as an administrator,

0:35:48.160,0:35:52.640
they can they can definitely do a lot of that. 
And even when you get into some of these these

0:35:52.640,0:35:56.880
conference commissioners and roles and things 
like that, you look at some of their backgrounds

0:35:56.880,0:36:01.680
and their track records of what they've done to 
prepare for that, it's very different than what

0:36:01.680,0:36:07.760
it was 20 or 30 years ago. Most of them come 
from a practitioner or a coaching background

0:36:07.760,0:36:12.400
and then worked their way through leadership to 
kind of get up up there. But if you've done that,

0:36:12.400,0:36:17.120
you've managed people. You've managed multiple 
relationships. You've had to take your wherewithal

0:36:17.120,0:36:20.960
and put it on the field and compete with it 
and understand if it works or not. A lot of

0:36:20.960,0:36:27.120
these folks, unfortunately, they're not tested. 
They're not they're not checked and balances that

0:36:27.120,0:36:32.160
they can manage all these critical pieces. So, 
I've definitely become much more weary of that.

0:36:32.160,0:36:37.920
It affects because it affects how I do my job. It 
affects my relationship with coaches and how I can

0:36:37.920,0:36:43.520
serve as coaches. It's essentially like getting 
put on a leash. And the better your leadership is,

0:36:43.520,0:36:47.920
the longer your leash is. I got more freedom. The 
worse the leadership is, the shorter the leash is,

0:36:47.920,0:36:52.720
I got less freedom. And so that's important 
because I mean, how much does an education cost?

0:36:52.720,0:36:58.400
How much did my master's degree, my undergraduate 
degree cost? How much cost can you put aside the

0:36:58.400,0:37:04.720
thousands of hours a week a year that I put in 
over the last 20 years to where I'm at? Like

0:37:04.720,0:37:10.320
there's a value to that. Well, if you're going 
to take that and put it on a leash this big to

0:37:10.320,0:37:16.160
me that that's uh that's problematic. So, I didn't 
know that before. I I just figured, hey, put me in

0:37:16.160,0:37:22.080
a position. I'll be successful. That was all my 
I had the confidence to have that mindset. But I

0:37:22.080,0:37:26.640
do understand now there's some uncontrollables 
out there that will definitely affect how you

0:37:26.640,0:37:32.720
can perform. And so I'm just a little bit more 
weary of that. Um so when we always get the good

0:37:32.720,0:37:37.760
advice right whenever we when we interview for a 
position, hey, make sure you interview your boss

0:37:37.760,0:37:42.560
as much as they interview you. But most people 
never do that. I would say that's something that

0:37:42.560,0:37:46.720
Mike Favor has kind of rubbed off on me and a 
couple of others. And I've gotten really good

0:37:46.720,0:37:53.360
at that over the last 10, 15 years. It served me 
well moving from Michigan to the UFC. It served me

0:37:53.360,0:37:58.880
well initially moving from the UFC to Texas A&M. 
Unfortunately, you know, the administration that

0:37:58.880,0:38:04.560
brought me in at Texas A&M, they moved on to Ohio 
State and they're doing great things up there. Um,

0:38:04.560,0:38:11.040
that was a little more of my flavor. The admin 
that's at&m now, they're they're very intelligent.

0:38:11.040,0:38:18.160
different different uh strategy and different 
um philosophy in terms of what's prioritized and

0:38:18.160,0:38:23.360
it's just not really my flavor. But then I pivot 
over into academics and I look at my leadership

0:38:23.360,0:38:28.000
here and we're asking a lot of those same critical 
questions like what is your expertise in managing

0:38:28.000,0:38:33.280
a lot of these things and it just aligns really 
well. it aligns to where they can put me in a

0:38:33.280,0:38:38.640
great position to use my experience and use my 
expertise to hopefully rub off and positively

0:38:38.640,0:38:44.160
influence that next generation of coaches. 
Absolutely. So, question for you as as I think

0:38:44.160,0:38:49.360
about everything you just said as I digest that, 
especially coming off of talking about working in

0:38:49.360,0:38:54.880
this new program and this mast's program here. So, 
how do you take those experiences that you've had

0:38:54.880,0:39:00.960
and distill it down for a student to understand 
the challenges that they might be facing? We talk

0:39:00.960,0:39:06.800
so much about preparing athletes and what skills 
can I add to my toolbox to prepare athletes. But

0:39:06.800,0:39:15.840
how much do we actually discuss building a toolbox 
for these coaches professionally? Number one,

0:39:15.840,0:39:20.880
you don't get an opinion until you're competent. 
So that's number one. And that's something a

0:39:20.880,0:39:26.640
student needs to be able to swallow quickly is 
that you don't really get an opinion or get to

0:39:26.640,0:39:32.240
give critical feedback until you're competent in 
what you do. Once you're competent in what you do,

0:39:32.240,0:39:37.280
then yes, it matters what those around you do so 
that you're able to be in a position to use the

0:39:37.280,0:39:41.360
skills that you have, those competent skills that 
you've acquired. So that's number one. That's kind

0:39:41.360,0:39:46.000
of barrier of entry. You got to be competent 
first. But then you need to be able to use the

0:39:46.000,0:39:51.440
layers of interaction starting at the bottom. 
So who are my counterparts? Can I interact and

0:39:51.440,0:39:58.160
integrate and work well with my counterparts? That 
has to happen first. Then can I integrate and work

0:39:58.160,0:40:03.760
well with the next level above my counterparts, 
their supervisors, my supervisor. Then can I work

0:40:03.760,0:40:10.560
well with the the next above that? So once you've 
gotten to that at a institution at a place moving

0:40:10.560,0:40:16.960
on to the next place you have the wherewithal 
go and interact with that top level executive or

0:40:16.960,0:40:22.240
administrator right away. You have the experience 
in doing that. You understand what questions to

0:40:22.240,0:40:26.720
ask and what not to ask. You understand their 
influence and what they have control over. But

0:40:26.720,0:40:30.880
you do it from a standpoint of you're trying to 
learn the system. You're trying to learn where

0:40:30.880,0:40:37.360
can I be most effective philosoph. How do we want 
to play the game? I can interview an administrator

0:40:37.360,0:40:43.120
or an executive. How do you want to manage 
this business? How do you want to manage us

0:40:43.120,0:40:48.000
going out and winning championships? What's your 
philosophy around that? When you understand that,

0:40:48.000,0:40:52.400
it gives you a better understanding of where you 
stand and what you have influence over. Because

0:40:52.400,0:40:57.440
that's a decision. We can decide, hey, I have 
a ton of influence here. I love it. I'm going

0:40:57.440,0:41:02.640
to stay there. We can also decide, uh, the way 
they manage things, it's not the right fit for

0:41:02.640,0:41:06.960
me. I probably need to find something else 
based on my personality and how I like to do

0:41:06.960,0:41:13.200
business. Whatever. For some reason, for so many 
years, I we know the reasons, but for decades,

0:41:13.200,0:41:17.840
coaches and practitioners have been taught just 
look, just shut up and be grateful you got a job.

0:41:17.840,0:41:22.640
Shut up and be grateful and just just go and do 
your thing. But like any job, every every job has

0:41:22.640,0:41:27.840
value. And so you got to make sure that your value 
lines up with your worth. And if you can do that,

0:41:27.840,0:41:33.760
if they line up together, you can be content. You 
can be you can feel successful. You can feel moved

0:41:33.760,0:41:38.240
and driven. You can feel fulfilled by the role 
that you're doing. If the second someone feels

0:41:38.240,0:41:43.280
like they're getting taken advantage of or the 
second someone feels like they're of low value,

0:41:43.280,0:41:46.960
they're high, especially if they're high 
expertise, like our jobs require a higher level

0:41:46.960,0:41:53.440
of expertise. If they're high expertise and low 
value, fulfillment, it will be at a low. And when

0:41:53.440,0:41:58.480
someone is not fulfilled, they will walk. They'll 
they'll leave. Money, it money will buy you some

0:41:58.480,0:42:01.840
time. You can give them a little bit of money 
and they'll sit tight for a little bit longer,

0:42:01.840,0:42:05.760
but they're really just sitting tight until they 
find something else that will fulfill them. Now,

0:42:05.760,0:42:11.840
there is a there is a demographic of coach out 
there, there's some studies that have talked about

0:42:11.840,0:42:16.960
this, where fulfillment isn't the main objective. 
They're able to compartmentalize. They just need

0:42:16.960,0:42:22.240
to be able to collect a paycheck and work with 
sports and they can sit tight no matter how much

0:42:22.240,0:42:27.280
they're getting abused or not getting utilized 
or whatever for decades. That's a real thing.

0:42:27.280,0:42:32.080
Those people exist. God bless them. I wish my mind 
worked like that. I'd probably get more sleep and

0:42:32.080,0:42:38.240
and wouldn't stress out half as much. But for 
me particularly and many others, we need to be

0:42:38.240,0:42:43.600
fulfilled. We've gone through all the ringers of 
accumulating this expertise. We want to put it to

0:42:43.600,0:42:48.560
use and our fulfillment comes from seeing it make 
a difference in the lives of competitive athletes

0:42:48.560,0:42:53.520
and competitive coaches. So, put us in a position 
to do that. Man, that's fulfillment all day long.

0:42:53.520,0:42:58.560
You can retain people like crazy. you let some 
of that slip or show someone that they're being

0:42:58.560,0:43:04.240
taken advantage of or that their value is low 
even though their expertise is high, they're

0:43:04.240,0:43:10.160
going to walk. Yeah. But compensation matters to 
a lot of people too at the same time, you know.

0:43:10.160,0:43:15.040
And I think it's a fear that's a that's a fear 
thing. That's a fear thing that there's not a

0:43:15.040,0:43:19.920
lot of opportunity for compensation out there. But 
dude, in this day and age for a strength coach,

0:43:19.920,0:43:24.880
there's so much opportunity. There's 50 times 
the opportunity of what was there 20 years ago.

0:43:24.880,0:43:28.720
There's not a police department in Brian College 
Station that doesn't have a strength coach or a

0:43:28.720,0:43:33.280
consultant working with them. I've got two former 
interns. You may know Eddie Yun. He was an intern

0:43:33.280,0:43:39.200
for us at at Michigan GA2. He's a strength coach 
at one of the largest fire departments in Metro

0:43:39.200,0:43:45.440
Denver. And he's got two three other strength 
coaches working for him. Um, and I forget how many

0:43:45.440,0:43:49.520
firemen they have coming through that firehouse. 
It's massive. But they got this super organized

0:43:49.520,0:43:54.720
program that's 24 hours a day. They're on shifts 
with with the firemen. So they're training based

0:43:54.720,0:43:59.360
on whatever their shift is. Um I mean there's you 
look at the military jobs and I mentioned all the

0:43:59.360,0:44:04.320
different high performance centers on top of yes 
all the collegiate institutions, the professional

0:44:04.320,0:44:10.800
sports leagues, but then also um 50 years ago it 
was rare to find every high school in the state

0:44:10.800,0:44:16.000
that has a strength program where now there's only 
a couple of states that have a single high school

0:44:16.000,0:44:20.720
that doesn't have a strength coach. So there's 
opportunities. It's what do you want to do? Now,

0:44:20.720,0:44:24.480
unfortunately, a lot of people get into this 
because they're like, I want to go work with

0:44:24.480,0:44:30.080
professional sports or I want to go work with 
an NBA team. That's their only objective. So,

0:44:30.080,0:44:35.360
they're from the from the day the onset, they're 
blinded, blinders are on, and they're not looking

0:44:35.360,0:44:40.400
at what some of these other opportunities could 
be. But yeah, the compensation thing typically

0:44:40.400,0:44:44.640
it's fear. It's like, well, I have to make a 
living and I don't know any other way to do it,

0:44:44.640,0:44:49.360
so I just kind of got to eat some [ __ ] 
right now and get a paycheck. Yeah. Yeah,

0:44:49.360,0:44:55.200
I mean we there is a lot of opportunity out there. 
We had Ben Dubin um from Tempe Fire on episode 2

0:44:55.200,0:44:59.440
and it was great to hear what the great work 
they're doing, but I think as a college student

0:44:59.440,0:45:03.840
or master student and you're right, sometimes 
we look at collegiate sports and you see what's

0:45:03.840,0:45:08.640
on TV and you're like that I want to be a part 
of that. That's the highest level. It's hard to

0:45:08.640,0:45:13.120
you kind of have these blinders on and it's hard 
to recognize or even understand that there are

0:45:13.120,0:45:18.800
so many other opportunities out there. Sure. you 
know, coming through my, you know, coming through

0:45:18.800,0:45:23.920
my own education and practical experience, like my 
singular focus was in collegiate sports, you know,

0:45:23.920,0:45:27.760
I thought maybe I want to be in professional 
sports, but the idea that this was happening

0:45:27.760,0:45:31.600
in all these different areas, I I just didn't 
really know. So, maybe that's changing over time,

0:45:31.600,0:45:37.040
too. And and again, these programs uh uh 
being around people who are now sharing

0:45:37.040,0:45:41.760
their knowledge and sharing their wealth and 
and providing, you know, Yeah, go ahead. Yeah,

0:45:41.760,0:45:47.040
I do think we probably don't do a great job of 
teaching students that or teaching young interns

0:45:47.040,0:45:51.440
now when they're coming through that, hey dude, 
there's a plethora of opportunities outside of

0:45:51.440,0:45:56.080
that one thing you're kind of hyperfocused on 
right now. I didn't I had one mentor that told

0:45:56.080,0:46:00.880
me that which was the greatest piece of single 
single advice that I ever got cuz he asked me what

0:46:00.880,0:46:05.280
I want to do for a living. I said I want to be 
a strength coach for an NFL team. And he's like,

0:46:05.280,0:46:09.200
"Do you know anyone that works in the NFL?" I 
said, "No, sir." He goes, "Oh, have you ever

0:46:09.200,0:46:13.760
have you ever like talked to anybody that's an 
NFL strength coach?" "Nope." "Do you know what

0:46:13.760,0:46:16.720
they do day-to-day?" "Nope." He's like, "Well, how 
do you know that's what you want to do?" I'm like,

0:46:16.720,0:46:21.360
"I don't know. I just that seems like the 
pinnacle." So, he told me, he said, "Look, I want

0:46:21.360,0:46:26.880
you to over the next 20 years, just accumulate as 
much experience as you can with as many different

0:46:26.880,0:46:31.120
sports and coaches as you can. Then, when it 
comes time to specialize in something, you're

0:46:31.120,0:46:35.120
going to have this depth to your toolbox. You 
can be a you can essentially go and do anything

0:46:35.120,0:46:38.880
you want to do." That was the greatest piece of 
advice I got. I held on to it and that's why I

0:46:38.880,0:46:45.440
went and worked with figure skating groups and 
wrestling teams and club sports and you know on

0:46:45.440,0:46:51.600
top of all the other stuff and I know that's not 
for everybody but even if you do have that thing

0:46:51.600,0:46:58.240
you're like I'm going to be a football strength 
coach in a big college school or or the NFL. I

0:46:58.240,0:47:03.120
would still say go out and get as much experience 
as you can in as many different sports as you can.

0:47:03.120,0:47:07.440
then when it comes time to specialize and apply 
for that job, you've got a deeper toolbox to

0:47:07.440,0:47:12.880
actually be able to do that job. It just it's 
so funny because I was I think when I went to

0:47:12.880,0:47:15.840
University of Texas for my masters program, I was 
like, "Yeah, I want to be a professional baseball

0:47:15.840,0:47:21.440
strength condition coach." Like, duh. Um and 
I met with somebody who was working I think

0:47:21.440,0:47:24.320
in TripleA with the Houston Astros or something 
like that. I started talking to him. I was like,

0:47:24.320,0:47:27.680
"Tell me about your life. Like, what are you doing 
on the road?" All that stuff. He starts talking to

0:47:27.680,0:47:33.760
me and I remember he's just talking and in my head 
I'm like, "What was I thinking?" like I don't want

0:47:33.760,0:47:38.880
I don't want to do that at all. Um and you can 
imagine me like two and a half years into this

0:47:38.880,0:47:41.760
being like I can't wait to do this. This is what 
I want. I've been telling everyone I want to do

0:47:41.760,0:47:48.080
baseball. Um and as he's talking I just see all 
of that fading away so quickly. Like I have zero

0:47:48.080,0:47:55.760
interest in this. Yeah. Yeah. It's a tough road. I 
mean and it it is one of the those things require

0:47:55.760,0:48:02.320
an unbelievable amount of passion. the amount 
of passion that doesn't care about compensation,

0:48:02.320,0:48:07.520
the amount of passion that doesn't care about 
hours spent, it doesn't care about, you know, and

0:48:07.520,0:48:11.680
that's a special thing that those are incredible 
people that that have that. And I would say all of

0:48:11.680,0:48:16.560
us have it at least for a phase or a stage in our 
life. And there's some that can hang on to it for

0:48:16.560,0:48:21.200
longer. I can tell you once you start having kids 
and family and things along those lines, it's not

0:48:21.200,0:48:25.920
that your passion goes away. your passion shifts 
and you you're passionate about something else,

0:48:25.920,0:48:33.120
not just giving your time away for free or you 
know um spending more time with a coach than you

0:48:33.120,0:48:38.800
do your kids, you know, you get to a stage where 
you can make that decision. You can make it, you

0:48:38.800,0:48:43.760
can decide what you want to do. Absolutely. And 
to each their own. And I think for me coming up

0:48:43.760,0:48:49.760
as a younger coach, um, you know, I love talking 
to older coaches and people have been doing it for

0:48:49.760,0:48:53.520
a long time and asking them, "Oh, what's it like 
now that you have kids? What's it like?" You know,

0:48:53.520,0:48:57.680
I remember Amanda would come lift, you know, 
at the facility at Michigan and I remember,

0:48:57.680,0:48:59.680
you know, I think Grayson was like running 
around or something like that. I was like,

0:48:59.680,0:49:03.280
"Oh, it's really cool." He was able to bring his 
family in here. But just talking to other coaches,

0:49:03.280,0:49:08.240
too, seeing some of the stressors and knowing 
what I wanted for my life personally, I knew,

0:49:08.240,0:49:13.920
okay, I'm going to get to a certain point where 
this won't work for me. So, I kind of left before

0:49:13.920,0:49:18.320
that. Yeah. Quote left. You know, I'm still in the 
performance space. But it's it's interesting. You

0:49:18.320,0:49:24.560
know, I I would recommend to many people just talk 
to as many experienced coaches as you can. That

0:49:24.560,0:49:30.400
that's great advice. Not to mention that decision 
you made is not for everybody, but people need to

0:49:30.400,0:49:35.120
understand that that decision is also okay. That 
that could be a actually a pretty high quality

0:49:35.120,0:49:41.120
strategy. While you're young, burn the oil, man. 
do go and go and work 90 hours a week and get

0:49:41.120,0:49:47.040
paid 20 grand a year. Go and do that because when 
you get older and you do have a family and you're

0:49:47.040,0:49:51.920
not going to be able to do that anymore, so do it 
now. I mean, that's a it can be a great mindset to

0:49:51.920,0:49:57.280
have. And plus, you can still Hey, I I experienced 
that. I did it. I stuck my nose in it. And you

0:49:57.280,0:50:03.760
know, there's some fulfillment in that as well. Um 
I mean, absolutely. The other thing I'll I'll say

0:50:03.760,0:50:15.360
on that is um when it comes to uh I want coaches 
to understand, especially upand cominging coaches,

0:50:15.360,0:50:20.080
you have more control over your career than 
you think. And so in being intentional about

0:50:20.080,0:50:24.800
decision- making like that, hey, I know this isn't 
going to be forever, so I'm going to give it all

0:50:24.800,0:50:29.360
I got right now and kind of eat what I can from it 
because there's going to be a stage when I want to

0:50:29.360,0:50:34.000
step away. coach is realizing and understanding 
that's a choice. You have that choice to make.

0:50:34.000,0:50:39.760
The same way that if you interview for a job, 
you're not obligated to say yes if they offer

0:50:39.760,0:50:44.800
it to you. That just tells you you get to see what 
all is on the table. And then if it's not right,

0:50:44.800,0:50:49.840
it is okay to say thank you for your time. It's 
not the right fit for me. It is totally okay to

0:50:49.840,0:50:53.600
do that. Coaches think they burn bridges when 
they do that. No, you're if you're good, you're

0:50:53.600,0:50:58.960
going to be recruitable the next time. So, we have 
more control over our career than we think. But

0:50:58.960,0:51:03.600
there's a lot of fear with that and I understand 
that. But if I can be a voice that says, "Hey,

0:51:03.600,0:51:08.480
you you got more control than you think. You 
have more bandwidth than you think. You have the

0:51:08.480,0:51:12.880
ability to pivot and shift." I get the question 
all the time, hey, if I go from college sports

0:51:12.880,0:51:18.160
to private sector, can I ever go back to college 
sports? The industry doesn't decide that for you.

0:51:18.160,0:51:22.320
You decide that. You decide if you're going to 
pursue one thing or another. Now, you got to be

0:51:22.320,0:51:26.640
good because if you're not any good then and your 
track record doesn't show that you're any good,

0:51:26.640,0:51:30.480
then yeah, no, they're not going to hire you. 
But outside of that, we have a more we have more

0:51:30.480,0:51:35.280
decision-making power than I think we sometimes 
think. We kind of get brought up in in this trade

0:51:35.280,0:51:40.160
as like we're just servants and we should be 
grateful that we got a job and there's still

0:51:40.160,0:51:45.840
a lot of that that goes around, but we do have 
more more um decision-m capability than we think.

0:51:46.480,0:51:53.680
I completely agree and I was not able to recognize 
that until afterwards, you know, or I think around

0:51:53.680,0:51:57.600
COVID, I kind of sat down and like, wait, I'm 
doing how many hours like for this, you know,

0:51:57.600,0:52:01.440
um, and now being on the other side of it, number 
one, I wouldn't trade any of the decisions I made

0:52:01.440,0:52:06.320
for anything. Like incredibly impactful. And you 
know what? All of those skills, the relationships,

0:52:06.320,0:52:10.160
working with athletes, problem solving, the 
schedules, like you talked about before,

0:52:10.160,0:52:15.600
will make you so much better in other areas of 
your life. Like, no question. And it was really

0:52:15.600,0:52:20.000
fun at that time. But yeah, uh uh it's really 
great to know that there are people now like

0:52:20.000,0:52:26.000
yourself going back into it, helping mentor these 
young coaches and being able to do that outside of

0:52:26.000,0:52:30.480
an environment that's just strictly coaching and 
observing, but really understanding what goes into

0:52:30.480,0:52:35.200
this from an athlete preparation standpoint, but 
also just lifestyle standpoint. So, um super cool.

0:52:35.200,0:52:39.120
On that note, too, um my understanding is you're 
also doing a little bit of consulting. I mean,

0:52:39.120,0:52:42.080
I would love for you to maybe just talk hit on 
that for a second and what that's been like for

0:52:42.080,0:52:50.560
you. Yeah. No. Um maybe oh a little over a year 
ago almost two now. I kept getting in my career

0:52:50.560,0:52:55.760
I've been fortunate in the positions that I've 
held. I've always been able to be a contributor to

0:52:55.760,0:53:01.040
facility design. And so it kind of dates back to 
my first job at Bell Haven College. Like I showed

0:53:01.040,0:53:07.200
up in this old weight room that hadn't had any TLC 
in a while and I essentially pulled every piece

0:53:07.200,0:53:12.400
of equipment out of it out of some old double 
doors in the back and repainted the whole thing.

0:53:12.400,0:53:17.440
put a brand new got a donor to donate a floor, put 
a new floor in. I didn't have an office space, so

0:53:17.440,0:53:22.880
I got some money donated to have a mason come in 
and brick up some walls that I helped him do. And

0:53:22.880,0:53:28.000
then I worked at a glass shop in college, so went 
to the glass shop, bought some discount windows,

0:53:28.000,0:53:32.480
put some windows and a door in it so I could have 
an office space. So that was kind of the start.

0:53:32.480,0:53:38.080
but getting to play to be a contributor in some 
of the remodeling on some facilities we did at

0:53:38.080,0:53:44.400
the USOC. Obviously, we did an amazing, you know, 
south campus, South Athletic Campus project at the

0:53:44.400,0:53:50.000
University of Michigan. And then, you know, I 
built essentially four facilities with the UFC

0:53:50.000,0:53:55.440
on three different continents. So gaining that 
experience and interacting with engineering and

0:53:55.440,0:54:01.360
architectural firms on that process on top of 
the stakeholders and and what they were trying

0:54:01.360,0:54:05.680
to create, the environments they were trying to 
create. That's lend itself now into where I'm I'm

0:54:05.680,0:54:11.600
getting phone calls from some of these firms to be 
a third party consultant to influence how they're

0:54:11.600,0:54:15.440
planning some of these spaces. not just from an 
aesthetic standpoint, but from a functionality

0:54:15.440,0:54:19.600
standpoint and what they're trying to get out 
of it, the the types of athletic populations

0:54:19.600,0:54:24.000
they're servicing, what all the facility is 
designed to do. Some are designed to be as much

0:54:24.000,0:54:28.800
of a showpiece as they are a functional training 
piece. Others, they're not a showpiece at all. No

0:54:28.800,0:54:33.520
one's ever going to put eyes on them other than 
the ones that are using them dayto-day. So, um,

0:54:33.520,0:54:38.720
so I've been doing that on the side. I've probably 
done seven or eight just freelance projects like

0:54:38.720,0:54:43.920
that where um they've already usually got some 
concept in their head. I'm just kind of helping

0:54:43.920,0:54:50.880
them think about logistics, uh safety and safety 
standards, um along with functionality and how

0:54:50.880,0:54:55.760
they can get the most bang for their buck in terms 
of per square foot, like how you can get most

0:54:55.760,0:55:02.880
economy out of a a square foot of a building. Um 
so that's been fun. And then also a little bit of

0:55:02.880,0:55:08.160
private consulting on the coaching side. So, some 
of it's remote consultation, some of it's remote

0:55:08.160,0:55:14.720
programming. I do have one or two in person 
that that I train privately locally here. Um,

0:55:14.720,0:55:20.640
I got a pretty elite level youth uh jiu-jitsu 
player. She's top three in the world in her

0:55:20.640,0:55:27.440
division and she's pretty incredible. Uh, special 
special minds set for an 11-year-old. Extremely

0:55:27.440,0:55:33.680
focused and driven. Um, definitely what you see on 
championship caliber athletes. She's been a lot of

0:55:33.680,0:55:39.120
fun. um got a great family. They're they're really 
flexible and easy to work with here in town. They

0:55:39.120,0:55:44.240
obviously wanted some expertise, someone that's 
been around combat sports, but also weight cutting

0:55:44.240,0:55:49.840
sports and and things along those lines. But yeah, 
so that's just kind of on my free time and and

0:55:49.840,0:55:54.240
uh kind of scratches some other itches and kind 
of helps me keep building my profile on top of

0:55:54.240,0:55:59.600
what I'm trying to do with our academic program 
here at&m. Absolutely. It goes back to what you

0:55:59.600,0:56:04.080
said earlier about just creating opportunity. 
Like if you are number one competent and you

0:56:04.080,0:56:07.760
have the expertise, there is opportunity that 
you can create out there and then opportunity

0:56:07.760,0:56:14.640
you can create for yourself. Yeah, definitely. 
And you know, you got to be a little adventurous,

0:56:14.640,0:56:19.200
but most of the time like we're more capable 
than what we give ourselves credit for. You kind

0:56:19.200,0:56:23.920
of there's a little bit of fear, a little hump to 
get over with putting yourself out there a little

0:56:23.920,0:56:28.640
bit. And you're going to take your lumps. I mean, 
I've learned a ton, you know, doing this little

0:56:28.640,0:56:34.400
business venture on my own by myself. one, I'm not 
an entrepreneur, so the whole dealing with taxes

0:56:34.400,0:56:39.360
and setting up LLC's and doing all that all that 
stuff is so foreign to me. But kind of like going

0:56:39.360,0:56:43.600
to school, man. You just you do your studies, 
you ask good questions, you you make mistakes,

0:56:43.600,0:56:47.680
you learn from them, and and you just next thing 
you know, it's a skill that's in your pocket

0:56:47.680,0:56:51.600
and you have it and you use it when you want to. 
Yeah, absolutely. Well, I appreciate your time and

0:56:51.600,0:56:55.760
I just have a couple quick quicker questions as 
we finish up here and wrap up this conversation.

0:56:55.760,0:57:00.880
Number one, uh, as a lifelong learner, is there 
any area specific to human performance that

0:57:00.880,0:57:10.000
you're really interested in right now or like 
any rabbit holes you've been going down? Um,

0:57:10.000,0:57:15.840
I would say, man, I have a lot to focus it in 
on. I'm still very much obsessed with we have

0:57:15.840,0:57:22.640
these clear-cut ideas like if I do this, it's got 
anorobic qualities. So, it's going to use this

0:57:22.640,0:57:29.760
type of anorobic energy and here's how I refuel it 
and replenish it. It's very cut and dry, black and

0:57:29.760,0:57:34.960
white. But, as we've learned, and I learned a ton, 
particularly from combat sports that are oftent

0:57:34.960,0:57:40.800
times training in a caloric deficit, there's 
energy supply and there's energy utilization.

0:57:40.800,0:57:45.440
It's a coordination with that. Like learning how 
to metabolize certain substrates is just as much

0:57:45.440,0:57:51.440
as a skill as learning how to press a barbell. 
It takes practice. It takes synchronization. It

0:57:51.440,0:57:57.600
takes timing. And so, and it takes consistency. 
So, that has that's been something that's on my

0:57:57.600,0:58:03.920
mind is like how much educ we need more education 
to athletes on one you have to you have to be able

0:58:03.920,0:58:08.880
to be properly fueled, but you also have to be 
coordinated on how you utilize that fuel. Just

0:58:08.880,0:58:13.520
because you're doing something slow doesn't mean 
you're metabolizing fat. In fact, there's some

0:58:13.520,0:58:18.960
folks that struggle with metabolizing fat because 
they don't regularly ingest good fats. And so,

0:58:18.960,0:58:23.520
if it's never accessible, your body doesn't get 
good at using it. Energy system or energy supply

0:58:23.520,0:58:28.480
and demand and the utilization of it is definitely 
something I've been just obsessed with, I'd say,

0:58:28.480,0:58:34.240
over the last five or six years. And then outside 
of that, the further integration between things

0:58:34.240,0:58:40.560
that that focus on sustainability. So when it 
comes to like fascia and tissue quality control

0:58:40.560,0:58:45.040
and and things along those which I learned a lot 
of that from our our PTs and our chiropractors

0:58:45.040,0:58:51.280
figuring out how to vertically integrate and weave 
that into the training process just to limit the

0:58:51.280,0:58:57.600
amount of damage mileage that gets put on the body 
on top. We know look, we got to expose the body to

0:58:57.600,0:59:01.760
the tension and stress if we want to get changes 
out of it. But just managing that process better

0:59:01.760,0:59:06.400
through through better quality control of all 
those critical tissues, that's that's something

0:59:06.400,0:59:11.600
that I'm just I don't know that I'll ever not and 
now that that's become a very apparent thing to me

0:59:11.600,0:59:15.920
over the last 5 10 years. That's just something 
that I'm constantly going to stick my nose in to

0:59:15.920,0:59:21.040
try to figure out better ways to economize an 
athletes workload. Yeah. Awesome. Thanks for

0:59:21.040,0:59:25.680
sharing that. And then for your own training, 
right, when Bo finally gets some time to get

0:59:25.680,0:59:33.120
some training in, what does that look like? So, 
I just got off a heavy year and a half of some

0:59:33.120,0:59:37.680
really heavy strength training, trying to get some 
strength back, put some muscle back on me. I was

0:59:37.680,0:59:41.920
training with Ray Ellsworth over the last year and 
a half, and she did an incredible job just beating

0:59:41.920,0:59:46.480
the crap out of me, but in a very responsible 
way. you know, as an older strength athlete,

0:59:46.480,0:59:51.440
she's super accustomed to managing volume and 
load and doing it in some creative ways. So,

0:59:51.440,0:59:56.880
I had a blast, man. I I got a lot of my absolute 
strength numbers back up to where they were in my

0:59:56.880,1:00:03.200
30s, which I'm really excited about. So, now I've 
shifted gears back. I'm I'm in a bit more heavy

1:00:03.200,1:00:09.360
pometric speed running sort of emphasis. Just 
trying to be athletic again on top of when it

1:00:09.360,1:00:14.560
when hunting season comes around, I try to get a 
bit more agile. I'm going to be carrying stuff and

1:00:14.560,1:00:19.440
dragging stuff and packing animals out and so just 
trying to boost my endurance a little bit more and

1:00:19.440,1:00:25.040
my pliability. So that's kind of my focus right 
now. I'll still do a heavy barbell lift maybe once

1:00:25.040,1:00:30.240
a week um as opposed to the three or four times a 
week that that I was doing in the last year and a

1:00:30.240,1:00:36.320
half. So um but a lot more running around, a lot 
more sweating, a lot more um a lot more metcons

1:00:36.320,1:00:42.240
and things along those lines. Last question I like 
to ask here. One of my favorite ones for every

1:00:42.240,1:00:47.680
single guest. I'm visiting College Station. What 
are you recommending for lunch or dinner? Maybe a

1:00:47.680,1:00:53.280
couple of your favorite spots or one specific 
spot that's your go-to? Yeah. Um, we'll start

1:00:53.280,1:00:58.000
with breakfast. This my that's my favorite meal 
of the day. First Watch. I know it's a chain and

1:00:58.000,1:01:01.920
they're kind of all over. The one that's locally 
owned here in College Station. It's right there

1:01:01.920,1:01:07.200
on the corner of campus and it's awesome. It's 
got healthy options. It's got some not so healthy

1:01:07.200,1:01:12.640
options. Their coffee is phenomenal. On top of 
that, got to jump into coffee. I would tell you

1:01:12.640,1:01:16.560
to go to I think it's called it's a new place 
in town. It's off of Welburn Road. It's called

1:01:16.560,1:01:22.880
the Lucky Goat. Incredible coffee shop. Awesome. 
Me and my wife probably frequent there a couple

1:01:22.880,1:01:30.400
of times a week at least now. Barbecue 1775. 
Unfortunately, they're only open, I believe,

1:01:30.400,1:01:34.960
Thursday, Friday, Saturdays. That's the only 
time they're open. And if you don't get there

1:01:34.960,1:01:39.760
by lunchtime, they're probably sold out by the 
time you get there. Really good brisket. All their

1:01:39.760,1:01:44.320
stuff is good, but their brisket is phenomenal. 
It's it's off the charts. And I've been to quite

1:01:44.320,1:01:50.160
a few really good ones, including Terry Blacks and 
all the the big, you know, credible ones across

1:01:50.160,1:02:00.320
Texas, but 1775's got some incredible brisket. Um, 
and then dinner. Um, the Republic is probably one

1:02:00.320,1:02:06.080
of my favorite dinner spots. Great steak and then 
unbelievable whiskey selection on top of that. So,

1:02:06.080,1:02:12.640
if you're a bourbon drinker like I am, um that's 
a great spot. Uh yeah, can't go wrong with any of

1:02:12.640,1:02:18.960
those. Well, it's fantastic. Uh clearly outlined 
and I love it from breakfast, lunch to dinner.

1:02:18.960,1:02:24.320
You know, being back in Chicago, it's great. I 
probably, you know, take it for granted the food

1:02:24.320,1:02:29.600
we have access to, but the one thing we really 
don't have is good barbecue and I miss it. So,

1:02:29.600,1:02:34.320
yeah. 1775. I'm going to go Google some pictures 
of it and just pretend like I was eating it. And

1:02:34.320,1:02:39.120
it's just a little, it looks like a small metal 
building and there's a little smokehouse in the

1:02:39.120,1:02:45.200
back. A dad started it and then a son took it over 
a few years ago. But most people eat outside. They

1:02:45.200,1:02:51.360
got a big covered back patio thing and uh it's 
incredible. It's really good. I want that. Yeah,

1:02:51.360,1:02:55.360
I want that. It can be done. It can be done. 
Come on down. We just don't have that here.

1:02:55.360,1:02:59.120
We just don't have that here. So, all right, 
B. Sandival, thank you so much for joining me

1:02:59.120,1:03:03.840
on the Kaiser Human Performance podcast. Really 
appreciate your time. obviously and we're really

1:03:03.840,1:03:07.360
grateful for it. If anyone wants to stay up to 
date on anything you're doing or they want to

1:03:07.360,1:03:11.920
reach out to you or get in touch with you, what's 
the best way for them to do that? Email. I mean,

1:03:11.920,1:03:17.120
email's easy and I don't mind answering emails. 
Sometimes I'm slow, but I usually I don't ever

1:03:17.120,1:03:25.360
ignore anybody. I'm pretty I'm a pretty good 
stickler on that. My email is bandavival tamu.edu

1:03:25.360,1:03:29.840
or Instagram. I'm pretty active on there. Although 
my Instagram is all over the place. It's hunting,

1:03:29.840,1:03:35.920
it's family, it's some training. I I don't put a 
ton of of training on there. I'm not really trying

1:03:35.920,1:03:40.800
to market myself as a fitness influencer per se on 
there, but there's some training stuff from time

1:03:40.800,1:03:48.320
to time, but that's bo.sandaval is my IG handle. 
But yeah, reach out, DM, whatever. I'll usually

1:03:48.320,1:03:53.360
get back to everybody. Sometimes I'm a little slow 
if I get bogged down, but uh I'll definitely get

1:03:53.360,1:03:58.800
to you at some point. So, I've had a lot of those 
conversations where I'll reach out to someone say,

1:03:58.800,1:04:03.200
"I really apologize for the delayed response." 
and it was like three months ago. It was like,

1:04:03.200,1:04:07.600
"But I just wanted to make sure I answered 
your question." And so, usually they're pretty

1:04:07.600,1:04:12.880
understanding and responsive, but if I can 
get back to you in 30 seconds, I will. Yeah,

1:04:12.880,1:04:16.240
absolutely. So, we'll make sure that we put 
those in the episode notes, but on Instagram,

1:04:16.240,1:04:20.560
Bo. Make sure you give him a follow. Uh, 
see all the cool things that he's up to,

1:04:20.560,1:04:24.480
especially the hunting things. That's how I knew 
that he was getting ready for hunting season. Um,

1:04:24.480,1:04:28.400
make sure you stay up to date. And I know in 
this field we often say, "Oh, this person's,

1:04:28.400,1:04:32.080
you know, the best. This person's incredible." 
just, you know, great coach but even better

1:04:32.080,1:04:36.560
person. And um Bo, I truly mean that. Um I 
appreciate it. And from the moment, you know,

1:04:36.560,1:04:40.000
we first met to obviously just seeing each other 
at conferences and staying in touch, you always

1:04:40.000,1:04:44.720
been very genuine, obviously very knowledgeable 
and honest and straight to the point and always

1:04:44.720,1:04:48.160
willing to share. So I really appreciate that. 
So thank you for giving us your time. I know,

1:04:48.160,1:04:53.280
as you mentioned, your time is valuable. So thank 
you for sharing your time. We're really grateful

1:04:53.280,1:04:58.000
for it and looking forward to catching up with 
you soon. Absolutely. Thanks. Thank you, Gabe,

1:04:58.000,1:05:02.640
for the voice and the and the opportunity 
and and Kaiser for all that you guys do. We

1:05:02.640,1:05:06.640
uh we appreciate that. You guys are are 
killing it in the industry and obviously

1:05:06.640,1:05:11.680
your equipment is everywhere. So, thanks so 
much for what you guys contribute and yeah,

1:05:11.680,1:05:16.080
keep rolling with the podcast. I was excited 
for the invite and kind of excited to to see

1:05:16.080,1:05:20.960
where else you go with uh getting guests 
on here. So, congrats on that. Thank you.