David Joyce: Synapsing

This episode of the Keiser Human Performance Podcast features performance expert David Joyce, who shares insights from his extensive experience working with elite athletes and teams across professional sports. The conversation centers on the evolving landscape of high performance, emphasizing the importance of integrating strength and conditioning, recovery, sports science, and leadership into a cohesive system. Joyce discusses how modern performance environments require collaboration across disciplines, with a focus on communication, adaptability, and individualized athlete care. He highlights the balance between data-driven decision-making and practical coaching intuition, stressing that while technology and metrics are valuable, they must be applied with context and purpose. The episode also explores themes of resilience, continuous learning, and the role of culture in driving team success. Overall, the discussion provides a comprehensive look at what it takes to build and sustain high-performing athletes and organizations in today’s competitive landscape.

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Welcome to the Keiser
Human Performance Podcast.

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The goal of this podcast is to educate and
inspire you to make the most of your

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journey in health and performance.

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Each episode will provide an in-depth
discussion on a specific topic

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related to human performance.

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If you're a growth-minded individual
seeking knowledge and better solutions,

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This podcast is for you.

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We're glad you're listening in
and we're excited to learn alongside you.

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My name is Gabe Derman, and on today's
episode, we welcome David Joyce,

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recognized as a leader in the
field of high performance.

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David spent more than two decades coaching
some of the world's best athletes,

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After earning his MBA,
David founded Synapsing, a global

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strategy, decision-making,
and coaching consultancy.

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He works a diverse portfolio of
high-performance organizations around the

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world, helping individuals and teams
develop leadership and

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problem-solving skills.

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On today's episode,
David shares with us some of the

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strategies he implements when consulting
for organizations and individuals aspiring

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to become consistent,
long-term high performers.

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You can follow David on Twitter
@DavidGJoyce,

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and we highly encourage you to check out
his book titled High

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Performance Training for Sports.

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The second edition is a must-have for
any sport performance practitioner.

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It is filled with practical information
by leading experts in the field.

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Do yourself a favor and buy this
book if you haven't done so already.

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We hope you enjoy the conversation.

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All right, welcome from
Australia, David Joyce.

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How are you doing?

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Yeah, good, thank you, Gabe.
Thanks for having me.

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Of course.

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More importantly, how is
the weather over there?

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You know, I've had, I've had enough of the
Chicago winter, and my flight lands in

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Sydney this Friday, so
I'm ready for some summer.

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Yeah, well, it was tipping down yesterday,
but we've got blue skies and, and sun

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today, so it should be, should be warm.

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I've scheduled that for your visit, so So
hopefully the weather gods

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were listening to my texts.

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Appreciate that.

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So David, 20 years in sports, you've
worked with Olympic athletes, EPL,

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Champions League, professional rugby,
you're physiotherapist,

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performance director, and in
2019, or really end of 2019,

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you decide to be done with all that.

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And David Joyce is now
ready for a new challenge.

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So you become a full-time MBA
student and enter Synapsing.

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What is Synapsing and what
compelled you to start it?

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Synapsing is a
strategy and decision-making

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firm that I founded in 2019.

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And what we aim to do is help performance
leaders in sport and outside of sport

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actually sleep better at night,
knowing that their, their strategies,

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their systems, their, their people
Set up for a complex future, which sounds

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like a bit of marketing speak.

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But essentially what we're trying to do is
we know that performance leaders, whether

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they're athletic directors, coaches,
CEOs, or whatever,

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spend a lot of sleepless nights
worrying about those sorts of things.

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And as an external boutique consultancy
firm, we go in and stand shoulder to

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shoulder with those leaders
and help them make the best decisions

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possible for their
context and their environment.

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And what compelled you
to start this, right?

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So you were in sport for a long, long time
and you got out of it, went into your MBA.

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You said you started in 2019.

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You're sitting there.

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What is this something
you've always thought about?

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Is this something that you grew up through
sport and thought that

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there might be a need for?
How did that come about?

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Interesting question.

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So
I think, I mean, I'd looked at doing an

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MBA for a very, very long time, like
probably sometime over the last

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12 years, I suspect.

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I remember going to open days
when I was living in the UK.

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Um, I think a lot of it gets down to the
fact that what I've always thought— like,

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I've always loved sport, you know, ever
since I was knee-high to a grasshopper.

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Um, but what I view sport as is, and my
role in sport, is to help make— help

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people make better decisions,
whether that is about training, whether

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that's about nutrition, whether that's
about lifestyle, whether that's about

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injury management, whether that's
about team selection, whatever it is.

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And sport just happens to be the
vehicle that I love doing that through.

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But it's not the only vehicle that
you need to make good decisions.

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And what I do see,
and having done this for such a long time,

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is that there are so many people that
don't make great decisions because

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of a number of different reasons.

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You know, their biases, or they don't have
the good decision-making hygiene set up

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around them, or they don't
have the right processes.

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And so I just want to be able
to add value to those people.

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So I guess
I would say probably 50% of our work is in

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sport, you know,
and not so much getting athletes

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fitter, faster, stronger these days.

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I've done that for 20 years,
but it's more about some of the more

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knotty problems, I guess you could say,
about how do we get more women

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into high performance coaching?

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How do we set up our system so they're
resilient against

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COVID, you know, how do we develop our
coaches, how do we develop our performance

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support staff, these sorts of things.

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About
30 to 40% of my time is in non-sports

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environments doing similar sort of thing.

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And about the remainder, whatever that
is, 10, 20% is executive coaching.

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So I coach people inside of sport like
head coaches, and I coach

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people outside of sport.

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Like I've got a lady who runs a chain
I have hairdressing salons in Nevada.

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And I think the red thread that links all
of those, Gabe, is coaching and making

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people make good decisions with
the information that they've got.

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And I will always be a coach.

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That's what drives me.

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But I just think that sport
is one aspect of coaching.

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It is a big part of who I am,
and so I'll never leave that.

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But I think that what we can do is take a
lot of what we know in sport

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and apply that to other areas.

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And what we can do is take a lot of things
from other areas applied in sport, and I

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probably sit in the middle
of that and try and be the information

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flow between the two
areas, if that makes sense.

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Yeah, it does, absolutely.

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And you mentioned sport as being one of
the major sectors that

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you're working with.

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Business is another one.

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Any other sectors that you're in
or consulting?

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So yeah, it's— look, it's
The majority of my work will be in sport

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and that will be with government agencies
in sport and with sporty organizations.

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Australia, UK, US is my primary areas.

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But financial services, property
development, like big multinational

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property development areas, education,
healthcare, they're the main things.

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But my decision-making framework about,
you know, who I work with

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So I run every one of my clients through
this, which is

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I need to be working with good people
that are doing worthwhile

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work, you know, adding value
on a project that is interesting that

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I'll learn about and that I have fun.

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Like, they're literally the
things that I work with.

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So
the good thing about that is that it opens

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me up to work with airlines or
to work with you know, hospitals.

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But it does need to add social value.

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So, you know, I would run
every client through that and go, right,

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well, am I working with an arms dealer?

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Yes.

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Well, then that's probably not the right
fit for our value set,

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if that makes sense.

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Yes, it does.

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So you're able to take your years and
years of performance in sports experience

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and combine that now with knowledge and
skills that you've acquired with your MBA

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to create a potent product
of value for organizations.

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What's— what was your biggest
challenge in getting started with this?

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Um, I think the biggest challenge was
the fact that I had to recalculate my

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own identity into that's what I do.

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So for a very long time, I was Joycey, the
sports guy with a whistle in his mouth.

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You know, that's, that's everyone
around the world knew me as that.

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Um, I mean, that sounds very grand.

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Not everyone around the world, obviously,
but you know, when I went around the

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world, people would know me as that, and
people would approach me on the street as

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Joycey, even if I'd
never met them, you know.

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And, um, So I'd had a lot of things that
had reinforced that identity, you know,

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like my books and, you know, the people I
hung around with and the conferences that

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I went to and spoke at and all those sorts
of things that continually

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fed that identity.

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And I was well paid, high profile,
all those sorts of things.

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Whereas what I needed to do to get started
in the next phase was to tease that away

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and move from being
Joycey, and there'll be a population of

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the world that still know me as that, to
being David, the guy that is not always

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wearing shorts and has got a whistle
around his mouth, but is actually

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working much closer with exec teams rather
than athletes wanting to get

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fitter, faster, stronger.

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And I think that's probably the
underappreciated thing about any sort of

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career transition
is that the actual X's and O's of it,

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Gabe, like getting the qualifications, you
know, setting up websites

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and all that sort of stuff.
That's the easy bit, honestly.

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The hard bit is actually pivoting in your
own head about what it is, who you are.

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So that was the biggest
thing for me, I think.

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Were you intentional about making
sure that you went by David?

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I've always introduced myself as that.

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Um, so I would never introduce myself as
Joyce here, but I would still obviously

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respond because that's— I recognize that
that's, that's a big part

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of, you know, who I am.

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But it's also a character, um, of, of me
and one facet of, facet of my personality.

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So I don't know that I was intentional
about it, but I would certainly say that

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I've been more intentional about aspects
of my character that I would put

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on show more readily than others.

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Yeah, and I appreciate your insight on
what you said about

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recalculating your own identity.

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I'm sure, you know, a lot of our listeners
are performance coaches and have

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always considered maybe other ventures.

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So I think hearing that from you,
uh, is some nice perspective.

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When you first began
Did you start in sport, right?

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Because that was an area and sector that
you were probably pretty comfortable with.

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And can you share any early experiences or
feelings that you had

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now being on the outside of an
organization looking in as opposed

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to always being on the inside?

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Yeah.

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So when I first started, so I left
full-time professional sport in, at the

00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:16.560
end of '19, but during the 2019 or the
year 2019, I was doing my MBA part-time.

00:12:17.760 --> 00:12:23.400
And as I was doing that, in the back end
of 2019, I got approached by

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the Australian government, the— and
specifically the Australian Institute of

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Sport, which is
not quite perfectly analogous, but

00:12:33.040 --> 00:12:35.240
it's broadly analogous to the US OPC.

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To do some strategy
consulting work for them.

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And I must admit, at the time I
was a bit perplexed about the whole

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consulting industry because I was going,
well, why is it that

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really good, well-run organizations with
fantastic leadership need consultants?

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I didn't quite get it.

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And it was when I started working in it
that I thought, then I understood it.

00:13:05.720 --> 00:13:09.055
And it was like Scott Galloway says that
you can't read the label

00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:10.100
from inside the bottle.

00:13:10.125 --> 00:13:14.120
And that's effectively what happens
in organizations is that you,

00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:18.360
a lot of these,
a lot of these companies and businesses

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and organizations get so busy doing the
daily things that they need

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some external perspective.

00:13:26.160 --> 00:13:28.640
So that gave me confidence
that I could provide that.

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But I didn't have the confidence to do
that in a sport that was

00:13:35.160 --> 00:13:38.320
non-adjacent to my background.

00:13:38.400 --> 00:13:40.840
So adjacent to my background
is obviously would be sport.

00:13:41.080 --> 00:13:42.960
So that's where I started and go.

00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:47.600
So I learnt my consulting chops through
that, how to

00:13:48.880 --> 00:13:52.080
work with clients, how to,
you know, prepare slide decks,

00:13:52.400 --> 00:13:53.680
all those sorts of things.

00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:58.440
And that gave me the confidence to be
able to then branch out from there.

00:13:58.600 --> 00:14:01.800
So
yeah, I think

00:14:02.680 --> 00:14:06.840
rather than doing a non-adjacent pivot, so
like going outside of

00:14:07.800 --> 00:14:13.840
my background and outside of my industry,
which would be a big leap,

00:14:14.320 --> 00:14:18.455
not just in my mind but in other people's
minds, I went to something a bit more

00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:23.040
tangential, which was sport, which
was a really good on-ramp for me.

00:14:26.040 --> 00:14:26.400
For sure.

00:14:26.800 --> 00:14:29.680
I like that saying that you said there,
can't read the label

00:14:29.720 --> 00:14:31.460
from inside the bottle.
I'm gonna steal that one.

00:14:31.485 --> 00:14:32.920
So thank you.
Oh yeah.

00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:35.640
So it's, I use that all the time.

00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:41.135
I just think it's
so evident and it's why coaching is so

00:14:41.160 --> 00:14:45.680
important, whether you're an athlete or
whether you're an executive,

00:14:46.800 --> 00:14:48.280
you need people to coach.

00:14:48.400 --> 00:14:51.400
Like I coach a lot of
people and I get coached.

00:14:52.160 --> 00:14:57.040
Because having someone that can help you
read the label is just so, so helpful.

00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:00.100
Absolutely.

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So I'm excited to learn more about your
consulting process, and if you're willing

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to share, you know, my question is,
in looking at your website and some of the

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information that you had shared, one of
the first steps in your

00:15:15.280 --> 00:15:17.360
process is the problem ID.

00:15:18.040 --> 00:15:22.040
Why do you start with this and what are
the series of steps that follow that?

00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:28.080
Well, the diagnostics piece is the most
important bit, is

00:15:29.040 --> 00:15:34.335
understanding what it is that you're
trying to optimize for or

00:15:34.360 --> 00:15:36.160
trying to solve, I suppose.

00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:40.375
So
everyone comes in with their view of what

00:15:40.400 --> 00:15:45.440
the problem actually is and Sometimes
that is absolutely nailed on there.

00:15:45.520 --> 00:15:47.500
They know exactly what the problem is.

00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:51.520
And sometimes they just know that
there's something not quite right.

00:15:52.520 --> 00:15:57.440
So with the sporting teams, I do a lot of
reviews of sporting organizations.

00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:00.720
And they won't necessarily
know what's wrong.

00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:04.200
They just know that the output
they're getting is not quite right.

00:16:06.040 --> 00:16:10.120
And so it's a bit like when you go to the
doctors and you go, I don't feel well.

00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:15.600
You may not know exactly what it is,
but that's why you go to the doctor,

00:16:15.680 --> 00:16:18.840
is to help, you know, get a diagnosis.

00:16:18.880 --> 00:16:22.660
And they run some tests and they listen to
your chest and all those sorts of things.

00:16:23.040 --> 00:16:29.720
And I suppose that what we do is the
analogy to that is you—

00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:33.680
we will go into an organization and say,
okay, so what are you wrestling with?

00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:35.400
What's your ideal future?

00:16:35.560 --> 00:16:37.060
Where do you think you are now?

00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:44.975
And then we'll try and tease apart
the current state and say, okay, well, you

00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:52.240
think the problem is X, but actually
when we dive below it, that the problem is

00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:58.720
T, you know, or it's actually less likely
that it's usually a confluence of a number

00:16:58.760 --> 00:17:00.660
of different factors all interacting.

00:17:02.160 --> 00:17:10.440
So yeah, we'll We'll go in, we'll speak to
a number of the leaders.

00:17:11.040 --> 00:17:15.760
We will speak to a number of the people,
like 6 levels down, like the people.

00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:20.400
So oftentimes, the CEO's got a really good
grasp of the strategy and the destination,

00:17:20.800 --> 00:17:24.895
but won't necessarily
understand what's happening on the shop

00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:30.415
floor, on the football field,
in the meetings between the physios and

00:17:30.440 --> 00:17:33.160
the strength coaches,
all those sorts of things.

00:17:33.560 --> 00:17:35.520
So you need to get in
right on the dance floor.

00:17:35.800 --> 00:17:38.680
Understand everything that's happening
there as well as on the balcony.

00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:41.900
So we'll do a lot of that, and then we'll,
um,

00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:46.040
speak to people outside as well and get an
external perception of,

00:17:46.400 --> 00:17:47.660
of what's happening.

00:17:47.840 --> 00:17:51.680
And I guess the, the advantage that
Synapsing's got now is because we've done

00:17:51.720 --> 00:17:55.840
so much of this, we've got good
benchmarks from around the world.

00:17:56.040 --> 00:17:59.080
We know what good looks like, we know what
bad looks like, we know

00:17:59.520 --> 00:18:00.840
what mediocre looks like.

00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:08.240
And so all that IP is
built up within the firm.

00:18:09.040 --> 00:18:11.735
And so we can
quickly diagnose that and then go,

00:18:11.760 --> 00:18:13.280
okay, so this is what we're finding.

00:18:13.600 --> 00:18:15.250
This is what people are saying.

00:18:15.280 --> 00:18:21.000
And these are some steps that we can
take to make progress on it, you know.

00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:24.400
So that's kind of why the
diagnostic bit is so important.

00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:30.120
Is that always how you started or is that
something over time you evolved and said,

00:18:30.145 --> 00:18:32.180
hey, this is where we have to start now?

00:18:32.560 --> 00:18:36.575
No, look, I think we've started
right from the very beginning there, and

00:18:36.600 --> 00:18:41.520
that's come from an appreciation that
has built up over the

00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:43.010
20 years of working in sport.

00:18:43.040 --> 00:18:47.600
And so it's actually why sport is so
helpful, is because you understand, Gabe,

00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:56.080
that performance is
not a univariate thing.

00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:58.120
There's not one thing
that makes performance.

00:18:58.200 --> 00:18:59.600
It's a confluence of factors.

00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:04.600
So the strength coach
how good they are and how good they are

00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:08.120
interacting with the dietitian
and then the head coach.

00:19:08.200 --> 00:19:13.560
And all these things come up into a,
like, sort of an— it's alchemy, right?

00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:18.575
And how you do that to get the performance
on the weekend or at the

00:19:18.600 --> 00:19:19.720
Olympics or whatever.

00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:24.680
There's not one thing that you can go,
it was because we made this decision.

00:19:25.840 --> 00:19:29.000
It's not like— and the
injury is the same thing.

00:19:29.040 --> 00:19:32.200
It's not because we did this that
we got that, or rarely it is.

00:19:33.040 --> 00:19:37.815
It's usually this interaction,
and how you can decipher that

00:19:37.840 --> 00:19:39.840
interaction is what makes performance.

00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:44.640
And because I've done that for so long in
sport, we're able to go, okay, so

00:19:45.520 --> 00:19:50.160
that will hold true in other
aspects of life because life is complex.

00:19:50.280 --> 00:19:52.440
It's a complex adaptive system.

00:19:52.760 --> 00:19:54.960
So how do you deal with
complex adaptive systems?

00:19:55.080 --> 00:20:01.160
You, you, um, you, you probe
which is that diagnostics bit.

00:20:01.320 --> 00:20:04.520
You sense, you understand what's happening
from your probe, you're running the

00:20:04.545 --> 00:20:06.320
experiments, and then you respond.

00:20:08.840 --> 00:20:12.480
So that's very much informed the
way we, we go about this process.

00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:18.840
Yeah, it may depend on the type or size of
the organization, but how long

00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:25.440
does that initial process of assessment
go for when you start a new project?

00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:28.440
So you mentioned getting on the
dance floor and dancing, right?

00:20:28.520 --> 00:20:32.440
How long does that dancing happen with
a lot of the different people involved

00:20:32.600 --> 00:20:34.720
within that organization,
if you can put a time on it?

00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:41.520
Yeah, well, it does depend on the scope of
the review or the diagnostic.

00:20:42.800 --> 00:20:47.895
But like, for example, I did a big piece
with one of the major Olympic nations that

00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:54.080
I did 90 interviews for, but it
was a very big strategic piece.

00:20:55.800 --> 00:20:58.440
There was one that I did for
another one that was 100.

00:20:58.520 --> 00:21:02.295
There's one that I'm doing in London that
will probably be 30 because it was a

00:21:02.320 --> 00:21:03.960
much more smaller term of reference.

00:21:04.080 --> 00:21:10.680
So, you know, typically it would be a
minimum of 30 interviews

00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:13.560
and, you know, extending out to 100.

00:21:14.560 --> 00:21:18.760
But, you know, the bigger the problem,
the more eyes and ears

00:21:18.800 --> 00:21:19.760
you need to get onto it.

00:21:19.800 --> 00:21:22.840
So,
If it is about

00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:26.415
we just want to understand what's
happening within our performance

00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:29.120
department, it's going to be much smaller
than what it is

00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:32.480
about we need to understand what's
happening in this organization.

00:21:33.640 --> 00:21:36.600
So it's a bit of a how long's a piece of
string, but I would say somewhere

00:21:36.625 --> 00:21:39.960
between the 30 to 100 interviews.

00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:47.120
So, you know, ranging from 2 weeks
to 3 months.

00:21:47.360 --> 00:21:48.280
3 months, I would say.

00:21:49.760 --> 00:21:52.920
I imagine you've had some situations where
somebody brought you in to work with a

00:21:52.945 --> 00:21:57.440
specific department or subgroup
and you started your process of problem ID

00:21:57.880 --> 00:22:01.320
and realized that it was actually much
bigger than what they had thought.

00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:03.810
Is that often the case?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

00:22:03.840 --> 00:22:06.520
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you do uncover that.

00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:12.495
You think you've found one cockroach and
in fact you've found, you

00:22:12.520 --> 00:22:14.040
know, a whole nest of them.

00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:21.720
But generally speaking,
you'll start to get a sense of that quite

00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:27.480
early before you commit to terms and
commit to timelines and things like that.

00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:34.360
So yeah, like,
a CEO won't come to me and say something

00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:39.560
and I'll understand immediately and say,
okay, well, this is going to take 17 days.

00:22:41.080 --> 00:22:43.620
And then you're going to have the answer,
because you've got to do

00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:47.840
some due diligence and you've got to do
some rummaging around before you go, okay,

00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:52.640
well, I think it's going to take somewhere
between 15 and 23 days,

00:22:53.000 --> 00:22:54.140
something like that.

00:22:54.360 --> 00:22:59.455
Occasionally you'll discover things that,
you know, snowball and all those sorts of

00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:02.735
things, but generally speaking,
you find that out a little

00:23:02.760 --> 00:23:04.340
bit earlier rather than later.

00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:10.760
So once you've completed your problem
ID, what's the next step in that process?

00:23:13.080 --> 00:23:18.320
So it's about bringing together the major
themes and going, right, well,

00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:20.180
this is everything that we've heard.

00:23:20.205 --> 00:23:21.880
These are the major themes.

00:23:22.520 --> 00:23:26.120
And then, as I said, you know, it's
the probe, sense, respond model.

00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:34.000
And then you start to
ideate and put into some into some trains,

00:23:34.760 --> 00:23:38.360
some thoughts about what it is that you're
going to do to

00:23:39.360 --> 00:23:44.920
understand if what you think is the
problem is actually the problem, you know.

00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:49.080
So you must run little experiments and you
go, right, so this is what I'm hearing.

00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:52.560
You test it with other people.

00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:58.000
So let's just say I'm doing
a review of Keiser.

00:23:58.320 --> 00:24:00.920
I would speak and you've
commissioned me to do that.

00:24:02.080 --> 00:24:05.920
I would speak to a whole heap of people
inside and outside of the organization,

00:24:06.320 --> 00:24:10.400
get a sense of what the
industry is like, do some research,

00:24:10.840 --> 00:24:14.440
and then come back to you and say,
okay, Gabe, so this is what we've found.

00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:17.800
These are the main
things that I'm thinking.

00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:20.640
How does that sound to you?

00:24:21.760 --> 00:24:23.640
Am I in the right ballpark, do you think?

00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:26.640
I'm interested in your reactions.
And you sense check it.

00:24:26.840 --> 00:24:29.420
So I think that's the really
important bit is your sense check.

00:24:29.800 --> 00:24:36.160
And then what we then do is go, right,
well, of the 7 things that we've found,

00:24:36.840 --> 00:24:38.400
what are the highest priority?

00:24:38.840 --> 00:24:41.680
Where do we— what's the biggest
domino that we can push?

00:24:43.800 --> 00:24:47.015
And so if you identify
this particular thing, let's

00:24:47.040 --> 00:24:51.560
just say it's your sales force.

00:24:52.320 --> 00:24:55.680
Yeah, okay, so we need to do
some work with your sales force.

00:24:57.240 --> 00:25:00.775
We run some experiments with that and go,
right, well, before we're committing

00:25:00.800 --> 00:25:04.200
everything in the bank to, you know,
improving the sales force, how do we,

00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:08.080
how do we make a little bit of progress or
run an experiment to see if

00:25:08.120 --> 00:25:10.080
that changes the outcome?

00:25:12.920 --> 00:25:16.600
And then you're just constantly,
you know, running experiments, getting

00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:19.920
information back, going,
okay, so this idea worked.

00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:22.640
Let's, let's deploy some
more resources there.

00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:26.920
And this idea looked really good on paper
but actually didn't work.

00:25:27.280 --> 00:25:29.640
So let's withdraw some
resources from that.

00:25:30.360 --> 00:25:35.320
So I think that's a much smarter way of
running it in a complex system rather than

00:25:35.360 --> 00:25:39.160
saying, okay, here's 10 things that we
learned, you need to do these

00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:41.120
10 things and see you later.

00:25:41.920 --> 00:25:43.840
Like that almost never works.

00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:48.960
And that's why consulting companies get
criticized is because they go in with all

00:25:49.040 --> 00:25:54.160
care, no responsibility, give a whole,
you know, huge report with loads of fancy

00:25:54.200 --> 00:25:57.960
PowerPoint slides and then walk away.

00:25:58.120 --> 00:26:02.160
And then the people
on the shop floor are the ones that are

00:26:02.360 --> 00:26:07.335
forced to implement
because the CEO has just spent a fortune

00:26:07.360 --> 00:26:11.040
on a consulting company coming in
that's got this fancy document.

00:26:13.360 --> 00:26:16.800
And, you know,
the poor people that are left to execute

00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:21.720
them you know, pull their hair
out because it's just unfeasible.

00:26:21.880 --> 00:26:22.760
That's not our model.

00:26:24.280 --> 00:26:28.880
I like how you explain that
and also mention the term sense check

00:26:28.920 --> 00:26:33.015
because it feels like it would allow me,
the organization or individual that you

00:26:33.040 --> 00:26:37.000
are consulting for, to take some ownership
in that process and understanding

00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:40.600
what it is that is the problem
and what's important to them.

00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:43.840
Yeah, so that the ownership piece is
really important and

00:26:45.080 --> 00:26:49.855
It's a really astute pickup, Gabe, because
if the organization doesn't have

00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:54.295
ownership, then
like execution or implementation of the

00:26:54.320 --> 00:27:00.240
strategy is, I wouldn't say it's
impossible, but it's pretty close to it.

00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:06.200
The organization needs to take some,
they need to feel like it's theirs

00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:11.600
because that's the thing which is gonna
really animate the workforce

00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:13.120
to make the necessary changes.

00:27:13.480 --> 00:27:16.560
And sometimes the changes are, well,
almost always change is hard.

00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:23.215
And so it needs people that totally buy in
and the only way they can buy in

00:27:23.240 --> 00:27:24.720
is if they feel like it's theirs.

00:27:26.440 --> 00:27:26.570
Yeah.

00:27:26.600 --> 00:27:33.200
And I was reading that an area you're
passionate about is decision science

00:27:34.320 --> 00:27:38.415
and a key pillar within that and a piece
you spend a lot of time educating on is

00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:41.320
developing better decision-making skills.

00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:46.600
Would you elaborate on why understanding
decision-making science is

00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:48.040
critical for your consulting work?

00:27:49.120 --> 00:27:54.960
Yeah, well, so, so much of the way we make
decisions is based on our intuition

00:27:55.800 --> 00:28:01.360
and what we feel is the right thing to do
without due process.

00:28:02.200 --> 00:28:05.680
And look, sometimes that's right and
sometimes you don't have time for process

00:28:06.360 --> 00:28:10.320
because, you know, the house is on
fire and you've just got to get out.

00:28:10.520 --> 00:28:10.800
right?

00:28:12.040 --> 00:28:14.920
Um, and that's where you
can rely on your intuition.

00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:22.240
But your intuition is only good when
you're an expert in the area, um, and

00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:25.560
an expert in that specific context.

00:28:26.320 --> 00:28:28.620
Like, that's, that's the
really important bit.

00:28:29.040 --> 00:28:32.160
Um, so let's just say, take
a firefighter for example.

00:28:32.600 --> 00:28:37.040
A firefighter that's, that's used to
working in household fires will

00:28:37.080 --> 00:28:38.400
have really good intuition.

00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:40.840
About what, what this is happening.

00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:48.480
But a firefighter working, um, on a,
on an airplane that suddenly bursts into

00:28:48.560 --> 00:28:51.560
flames may jump to some wrong conclusions.

00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:56.760
I would still prefer them to be fighting
the fire than me, but their intuition is

00:28:56.840 --> 00:28:58.640
not going to be quite as finely honed.

00:28:58.680 --> 00:29:02.280
So it's not just the fact that it's fire,
but it's the context

00:29:02.360 --> 00:29:03.400
that's really important.

00:29:03.800 --> 00:29:07.440
And so if we put that into this
context here.

00:29:07.960 --> 00:29:11.040
It's just because you're a strength coach
doesn't mean to say that you know

00:29:11.065 --> 00:29:13.975
everything that could go wrong in or
that's going right within

00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:15.340
a strength department.

00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:19.535
And being able to
diagnose it in your organization and

00:29:19.560 --> 00:29:22.880
someone else's, like, it's not quite
as easily transplantable as that.

00:29:23.520 --> 00:29:26.680
So you need to be able to really
understand the context because what's

00:29:26.705 --> 00:29:31.575
happening in a professional sport
system may be different to what's

00:29:31.600 --> 00:29:33.840
happening in an amateur sport system.

00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:36.880
So the context is really important.

00:29:37.040 --> 00:29:40.600
And so that diagnosis bit, that's the
decision science bit,

00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:45.640
is knowing what tools to use
for the context that you've got.

00:29:47.120 --> 00:29:53.080
So relying on intuition is good
in basically two areas.

00:29:53.360 --> 00:29:56.240
And Gary Klein is a decision scientist,
talks about this, which is

00:29:57.600 --> 00:30:02.600
when you've got a lot of experience in
that context and there are enough

00:30:04.280 --> 00:30:11.160
loops for learning that you can update
your intuition as it's going in real time.

00:30:13.320 --> 00:30:17.240
But that's a subset of when
you can use intuition.

00:30:17.720 --> 00:30:22.535
I think
the bigger times where you need to use a

00:30:22.560 --> 00:30:27.920
proper decision science process
is everything else when it's not gonna be

00:30:28.800 --> 00:30:33.080
time critical, or, and by time
critical I mean happens right now.

00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:36.560
Like, it might be,
you might need to make a decision in,

00:30:37.320 --> 00:30:39.360
in 2 days or 2 months or 2 years.

00:30:39.880 --> 00:30:43.360
That's when you need to have a proper
process of understanding what the problem

00:30:43.400 --> 00:30:47.800
is,
gathering all the information,

00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:52.360
understanding whether you,
whether you're making a decision based on

00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:58.375
imperfect information
and whether getting more information would

00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:03.080
actually make a tangible outcome,
a tangible, um, difference to the outcome.

00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:09.120
And so if that's the case, if it makes a
big difference, then you go and get more

00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:11.840
decision, more information, because
that makes a better decision.

00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:15.960
But sometimes you've got all the
information that you can get,

00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:21.000
or you can get in that time period, and
then you've got to make the decision.

00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:25.720
So there's, there's, there's so many
different aspects to it, Gabe, and that's

00:31:25.800 --> 00:31:30.360
why actually I found that
being a specialist in this area is so

00:31:30.520 --> 00:31:34.015
helpful for organizations because
they're really good at being an

00:31:34.040 --> 00:31:36.520
architecture firm or being
a sporting organization.

00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:40.000
Why would they be good
at decision science?

00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:44.400
So that's, that's where, you know,
Synapsing comes in and,

00:31:44.840 --> 00:31:46.840
and what we do is, is really helpful.

00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:50.980
Well, that leads right into one
of my next questions that you had.

00:31:51.005 --> 00:31:55.040
And it's another term, or actually two
terms that I saw was helping,

00:31:55.800 --> 00:31:59.090
you know, one of your interests is helping
emerging leaders transition from

00:31:59.120 --> 00:32:00.920
domain experts to adaptable leaders.

00:32:01.040 --> 00:32:03.880
Like you mentioned, they're equipped with
the knowledge that they need to do

00:32:03.905 --> 00:32:05.680
their job, to be a great architect.

00:32:05.760 --> 00:32:11.055
However, now they need to have
this education in decision-making and

00:32:11.080 --> 00:32:12.420
they need to become adaptable leaders.

00:32:12.445 --> 00:32:14.460
Can you explain to us
what that means to you?

00:32:14.680 --> 00:32:15.050
Yeah.

00:32:15.080 --> 00:32:19.800
Well, so when you're a subject matter
expert, you know everything that's going

00:32:20.040 --> 00:32:26.575
on and you've got there because of years
of training and you've

00:32:26.600 --> 00:32:28.040
developed that intuition.

00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:34.520
But what we often see is that
the strength coach

00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:37.800
will build up and they'll have all this
knowledge about

00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:43.080
physiology, anatomy, biomechanics,
Acton-Myers, and all

00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:44.240
these sorts of things.

00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:50.520
And because they become the most senior,
then they're asked to run the department.

00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:55.080
And that's a— it's actually
a really different skill set.

00:32:55.240 --> 00:32:57.520
You know, it takes them off the gym floor
a lot,

00:32:59.160 --> 00:33:03.000
and they have to
be an expert in leading other strength

00:33:03.040 --> 00:33:09.760
coaches and making capital acquisitions
and, you know, dealing with

00:33:10.760 --> 00:33:14.000
athletic directors and politics
and all those sorts of things.

00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:20.600
Now, much of what they've been—
what much of their new job description

00:33:21.160 --> 00:33:25.240
is not trained for by being an expert in
biomechanics and physiology.

00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:31.160
So I think there's a really important
piece about how we can

00:33:32.040 --> 00:33:35.480
help these people make a really good fist
of their next journey,

00:33:35.560 --> 00:33:36.640
which is being a leader.

00:33:37.760 --> 00:33:41.400
And
the really interesting thing is that when

00:33:41.440 --> 00:33:44.935
you're a subject matter expert, you get
this flood of dopamine

00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:46.320
because you solve problems.

00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:49.080
You know, I've got this
problem and I can fix it.

00:33:51.400 --> 00:33:55.720
When you become a leader,
you get fewer of those things.

00:33:56.680 --> 00:33:58.880
You know, it's much more
of a complex domain.

00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:02.720
You've got to work through influence
and working through other people.

00:34:03.440 --> 00:34:06.920
And so you get less of this dopamine hit.

00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:09.650
And we're— look, we're all
dopamine addicts, right?

00:34:09.680 --> 00:34:10.560
You, me, everyone.

00:34:11.960 --> 00:34:16.600
Um, so what do these people
do when they don't get dopamine?

00:34:16.840 --> 00:34:18.600
They go searching for it.

00:34:19.600 --> 00:34:21.440
And so how do they go
searching for it, Gabe?

00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:28.640
They go back onto the gym floor
because they can solve problems.

00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:33.280
And so what do those
people get labeled as?

00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:36.800
They get labeled as micromanagers.

00:34:38.920 --> 00:34:39.100
Yeah.

00:34:39.125 --> 00:34:43.815
And so putting some empathy around that is
they're just trying to optimize their

00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:49.200
neural circuits and
neurobiology and physiology.

00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:57.160
Um, so how do we enable these leaders
to feel fulfilled,

00:34:58.400 --> 00:35:03.815
knowing that the job of being a leader is
less about solving immediate problems on

00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:09.320
the gym floor—
insert your own work analogy here—

00:35:10.160 --> 00:35:13.800
and actually become better leaders
without being micromanagers.

00:35:14.880 --> 00:35:19.800
That's the really— that's the important
bit that we miss with leadership.

00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:23.320
And that's why I'm so interested in
helping those people,

00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:26.640
you know, the people that transition out
of doing what they do

00:35:27.720 --> 00:35:29.320
or what they've got their name as.

00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:32.360
How do they divorce
their identity from that?

00:35:32.760 --> 00:35:35.640
How do they become better leaders
without being micromanagers?

00:35:36.240 --> 00:35:38.320
That's the bit that really animates me.

00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:43.040
That's great insight.

00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:47.175
And one of the things that I started to
think about when you talked about those

00:35:47.200 --> 00:35:51.295
last two questions and your answers was
getting leaders to understand the

00:35:51.320 --> 00:35:54.495
importance of good decision-making,
getting them to understand the

00:35:54.520 --> 00:35:56.640
importance of being adaptable.

00:35:58.520 --> 00:36:01.800
I think
you can help them understand it, but then

00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:04.920
how do you help them actually build skills
that's gonna allow them

00:36:05.040 --> 00:36:06.540
to do those things better?

00:36:06.720 --> 00:36:08.780
Yeah.
So that's where the coaching comes in.

00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:11.535
So that's where,
you know, with, with the people that I

00:36:11.560 --> 00:36:15.120
coach, I'll onboard them
over a process of 3 months.

00:36:15.240 --> 00:36:20.920
We'll spend
Every 2 weeks I'll be

00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:26.080
going through content with them and
coaching and upgrading their skill set.

00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:29.240
And then we will check in.

00:36:29.600 --> 00:36:33.335
Sometimes it's every 2 weeks, sometimes
it's once a month and we will workshop

00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:37.960
problems and have specific things that
they need to do

00:36:39.040 --> 00:36:43.080
and come back and then they'll
constantly be on the phone to me about

00:36:43.120 --> 00:36:44.170
little things that they're trying to do.

00:36:44.200 --> 00:36:48.095
And over time what you see is that, so my
model is I try and coach myself out of a

00:36:48.120 --> 00:36:52.400
job is because I'm trying to
upgrade their capability set.

00:36:52.560 --> 00:36:53.920
I don't want to be reliant upon.

00:36:55.480 --> 00:36:59.440
That takes a year or
2 years sometimes to do that.

00:37:00.600 --> 00:37:03.935
And then they can make their own
decisions and they're much more

00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:05.400
comfortable in their own skin.

00:37:06.160 --> 00:37:11.975
So that's exactly the same as what
you've done as a professional strength

00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:15.640
coach, Gabe, is that
you do that, you program for people

00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:19.440
and you get them really good and up to
that point when,

00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:25.440
you know, hopefully they're a more
mature, resilient, adaptable athlete,

00:37:26.120 --> 00:37:28.095
they've got a much bigger
say in their own program.

00:37:28.120 --> 00:37:30.480
I'm sure you would—
that would be your model as well.

00:37:30.520 --> 00:37:32.260
That's what good strength coaches do.

00:37:32.600 --> 00:37:34.415
So they don't want to
create this reliance.

00:37:34.440 --> 00:37:36.520
That's the same as what we
do in executive coaching.

00:37:37.560 --> 00:37:41.760
Um, but, you know, there's a, there's a
whole heap of capability that you need to

00:37:42.440 --> 00:37:45.560
upgrade in people in order for
them to be able to do that.

00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:49.520
Same way you wouldn't get a rookie athlete
just to, to run their own show

00:37:50.160 --> 00:37:53.600
because they don't have that skill
set, that knowledge bank to start with.

00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:57.015
Yeah, absolutely.

00:37:57.040 --> 00:37:59.640
It's a good analogy as well with
the strength conditioning coach.

00:37:59.720 --> 00:38:04.400
So in reading more about Synapsing, I also
came across the term corporate athlete.

00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:08.120
Can you expand on that term
and what it means and why you created it?

00:38:08.920 --> 00:38:12.280
Yeah, well, I don't think I created it,
um, but, but certainly

00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:17.920
it's this concept that
When we think about an athlete, we tend to

00:38:18.680 --> 00:38:22.200
visualize, and particularly for those of
us in sport, we visualize someone

00:38:22.720 --> 00:38:27.255
performing on a weekend in front of lots
of people or, you know, at the Olympics

00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:28.840
or Paralympics or whatever it is.

00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:34.880
It's someone competing
in a physical movement-based task.

00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:43.160
But if we expand the view of athlete to
incorporate to incorporate, you know,

00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:46.720
people in business,
it's no less competitive.

00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:49.600
In fact, in often cases it's more.

00:38:50.120 --> 00:38:56.640
And they, rather than reliant on their, on
how fit, fast, strong they are,

00:38:57.120 --> 00:38:58.840
they're reliant on their decision-making.

00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:04.455
They're reliant on their brain
to be the best possible version of

00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:08.160
themselves they can and
to make the best decisions.

00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:11.480
And that's the thing which
earns them their living.

00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:19.120
But we know so much, and we've got a much
greater appreciation of this now,

00:39:19.640 --> 00:39:25.560
is that how well you can make decisions
is, is inextricably linked to your health,

00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:29.415
to your well-being,
and those things in turn are inextricably

00:39:29.440 --> 00:39:34.920
linked to the decisions that you make
about your, your physical activity your,

00:39:35.600 --> 00:39:38.800
um, your recovery, these sorts of things.

00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:40.920
So I do, I do work with CEOs.

00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:45.200
I was doing work with a CEO yesterday
about periodizing, and he'd never

00:39:45.240 --> 00:39:47.280
used, never heard of that term before.

00:39:47.320 --> 00:39:51.800
That is just common for you and me
because we use that with athletes.

00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:56.040
And if we go back to the roots of
periodization, it's about, um,

00:39:56.920 --> 00:40:01.280
apportioning our, or budgeting
our energy expenditure

00:40:02.240 --> 00:40:05.480
to allow us to peak at a predefined
crucible moment,

00:40:06.080 --> 00:40:08.640
whether that is, you know, the 100 meters
at

00:40:10.120 --> 00:40:14.000
the Paris Olympics, whether it's
on the weekend in the Super Bowl,

00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:19.120
whatever it is, it's about
looking forward and going,

00:40:19.720 --> 00:40:22.320
this is our moment, this is
when we want to be at our best.

00:40:23.520 --> 00:40:24.220
Okay.

00:40:26.240 --> 00:40:28.880
Now executives have
exactly the same thing.

00:40:29.440 --> 00:40:31.340
You will have exactly the same thing.

00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:34.320
You know, you need to be at
your best at a particular time.

00:40:35.560 --> 00:40:39.520
It might be, you know, you've got serving
board papers, you've got a huge

00:40:39.880 --> 00:40:42.720
acquisition,
you know, you've got a big trip

00:40:43.640 --> 00:40:46.720
to Australia in the next couple of weeks
or the next couple of days, in fact.

00:40:48.120 --> 00:40:50.060
You know, you need to be at your best
because you're speaking at a

00:40:50.085 --> 00:40:52.020
conference, all those sorts of things.

00:40:52.160 --> 00:40:57.120
Now, frequently what I hear with with
business owners, with, with executives,

00:40:57.480 --> 00:41:00.320
with people that are not athletes in the
traditional sense,

00:41:01.160 --> 00:41:06.720
is they limp to the line,
they limp to the weekend, they're burnt

00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:10.200
out by the end of the year, they're
burnt out by the time they're 42.

00:41:10.280 --> 00:41:14.055
It's because they're not apportioning
their energy in the most

00:41:14.080 --> 00:41:15.700
efficient, effective manner.

00:41:16.080 --> 00:41:18.260
So that's where the concept
of periodization comes in.

00:41:18.285 --> 00:41:23.615
And how do we How do we
look at using some of the tools that we

00:41:23.640 --> 00:41:28.320
get in sport about, you know, maximizing
our recovery, maximizing our sleep?

00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:32.280
That's the sort of thing—
they're the sorts of things that we,

00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:34.000
we talk about in corporate athletes.

00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:39.040
You know, I'm, I'm involved with a, a
business called Optimize, which is,

00:41:40.240 --> 00:41:43.920
as you know, uh,
um, what we're, what we're doing is

00:41:44.520 --> 00:41:50.120
providing mental performance
using technology for athletes.

00:41:51.240 --> 00:41:55.640
Now, so if you think about Calm and
Headspace, which do a fantastic job with,

00:41:55.960 --> 00:41:59.960
with mindfulness and sleep,
we're using a similar sort of channel,

00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:03.320
um, but for mental performance.

00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:10.840
Now, we're going after the athletic market
because that is underserved in this area.

00:42:11.120 --> 00:42:14.295
You know, sports psychologists do a
fantastic job all around the world, but

00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:15.560
they can't scale their voice.

00:42:15.600 --> 00:42:18.760
You know, they can do things one-on-one
or in team meetings at the most.

00:42:19.560 --> 00:42:25.000
I mean, we want to amplify not just
their voice but the domain itself.

00:42:26.600 --> 00:42:29.440
So we're working away at that, you know.

00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:37.840
And so this is animating me, but I know
that this can translate directly.

00:42:38.560 --> 00:42:40.680
This product will be able to translate
directly into

00:42:42.600 --> 00:42:50.000
businessmen, businesswomen, doctors,
surgeons, military, um, personnel,

00:42:51.120 --> 00:42:55.880
students, because it's all
mental performance, right?

00:42:57.000 --> 00:43:00.160
I think the big gains to be had in, in
sporting performance—

00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:04.920
yeah, we'll always have gains in physical
capabilities, right?

00:43:05.080 --> 00:43:05.480
Always.

00:43:06.200 --> 00:43:09.220
But they're marginal compared to the
gains that we can have in mental.

00:43:09.600 --> 00:43:12.280
So that's the, that's the area that I'm
devoted to serving

00:43:12.600 --> 00:43:13.720
through, through Optimize.

00:43:16.200 --> 00:43:19.480
And, you know, getting back to your
question about corporate athletes, that's

00:43:19.505 --> 00:43:24.120
exactly what we're doing, is
enhancing their mental performance.

00:43:28.200 --> 00:43:32.335
So it's safe to assume that you've now
seen your fair share of dysfunctional

00:43:32.360 --> 00:43:36.255
organizations or organizations that aren't
reaching their full potential, as you

00:43:36.280 --> 00:43:38.660
mentioned, people who are
crawling to the weekend.

00:43:38.920 --> 00:43:41.455
And then you've seen plenty
of successful organizations.

00:43:41.480 --> 00:43:41.760
Right?

00:43:41.920 --> 00:43:44.400
So what are some of the common themes or
characteristics you,

00:43:45.160 --> 00:43:48.640
you've observed amongst successful
organizations or

00:43:48.960 --> 00:43:50.320
individual high performers?

00:43:51.200 --> 00:43:56.255
Yeah, um, I've done a lot of work on this,
Gabe, and it's, it's really, it's really

00:43:56.280 --> 00:43:59.280
interesting that you asked the question
because I've done

00:43:59.960 --> 00:44:04.120
over the last 3 years, I, I came up
over 500 hours of interviews of,

00:44:04.600 --> 00:44:07.920
of high performance teams
and high performance people.

00:44:09.120 --> 00:44:14.320
Now, many of them are in sport,
but I've spoken to leaders, CEOs

00:44:15.680 --> 00:44:20.400
in healthcare, in education, in
technology, in gaming, all around.

00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:22.400
I've got a really nice
view of what this is.

00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:28.480
And I've asked a lot of people about
what it is that defines high performance.

00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:35.160
And I must admit
that there are, you know, there'll be 100

00:44:35.200 --> 00:44:39.240
different words, but there's one theme
that keeps coming through,

00:44:40.840 --> 00:44:42.560
and that theme is connection.

00:44:44.600 --> 00:44:50.200
Now let me just double-click on
that and expand a little bit.

00:44:52.080 --> 00:44:57.120
I think the connection bit here
is about a connection to a purpose.

00:44:58.400 --> 00:44:59.960
People feeling connected to a purpose.

00:45:00.040 --> 00:45:05.080
And so you'll be familiar probably with,
and it's probably apocryphal, but the

00:45:07.640 --> 00:45:14.455
story about the janitor at NASA with
President Kennedy coming into the

00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:17.080
bathroom and saying, oh, what do you do?
To the janitor.

00:45:17.120 --> 00:45:19.440
And the janitor says, I'm
putting man on the moon.

00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:23.200
You know, that person, whether that story
is true or not,

00:45:24.040 --> 00:45:26.680
it's a reflection of of connection.

00:45:27.400 --> 00:45:31.160
So this janitor didn't
say, I clean the toilets.

00:45:31.720 --> 00:45:36.160
He said, I'm putting man on the moon,
because he's connected to the purpose.

00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:40.720
So it's having everyone in the
organization having a real connection to

00:45:41.120 --> 00:45:42.640
the vision, the mission, the purpose.

00:45:43.040 --> 00:45:46.400
Okay, um, but it's also broader than that.

00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:48.400
It's about people feeling
connected together.

00:45:49.720 --> 00:45:53.495
It's about athletes feeling connected to
their plan and to their strength coach and

00:45:53.520 --> 00:45:56.520
to their, their technical coach
and to their medical staff.

00:45:57.320 --> 00:46:02.240
It's about the medical staff feeling
connected to the strength team.

00:46:04.120 --> 00:46:09.960
So I think that is the single
unifying feature

00:46:10.560 --> 00:46:15.320
of a high-performance organization
and a high-performance person.

00:46:15.600 --> 00:46:20.240
You know, they're connected to their life
mission, their purpose, their family,

00:46:20.560 --> 00:46:22.640
their staff, those sorts of things.

00:46:24.280 --> 00:46:27.160
And so what I will be doing is when I'm
working with these people

00:46:27.185 --> 00:46:28.320
is testing for this.

00:46:28.720 --> 00:46:31.680
I'm pulling the threads to see
if, if we've got integrity.

00:46:32.200 --> 00:46:34.960
And integrity can mean,
you know, doing the right thing at the

00:46:34.985 --> 00:46:39.760
right time by the right methods, or it can
actually mean integrity in terms of

00:46:41.040 --> 00:46:45.080
things holding together, making
it waterproof, so to speak.

00:46:46.600 --> 00:46:50.080
So I think that's the bit That's
the unifying feature, Gabe.

00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:55.080
And if you look at
organizations that are not doing well,

00:46:56.240 --> 00:46:59.560
invariably they won't
have that connection.

00:47:00.720 --> 00:47:06.800
Now, you can get to a peak
performance without connection.

00:47:08.040 --> 00:47:11.000
Okay, you can have people that don't get
on well with each other,

00:47:12.600 --> 00:47:14.760
but for a very discrete period.

00:47:15.040 --> 00:47:19.000
They will come in and do something
quite extraordinary.

00:47:20.720 --> 00:47:21.820
That will be peak performance.

00:47:21.845 --> 00:47:24.840
But high performance, I think,
is something sustainable.

00:47:25.680 --> 00:47:32.560
And I've never ever come across a
high performance

00:47:33.160 --> 00:47:38.120
person or high performance organization
that sustains high performance

00:47:38.680 --> 00:47:40.120
without connection.
Never.

00:47:40.720 --> 00:47:43.720
And I've challenged people to come up with
an example and no one has

00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:44.880
ever been able to do it.

00:47:45.680 --> 00:47:48.080
So if you or your listeners can come up
with an example of

00:47:48.920 --> 00:47:52.640
that, I would love to hear it because I
need an exception that proves the rule.

00:47:54.760 --> 00:47:59.240
But that is the word that I would
say is the most important one.

00:48:01.200 --> 00:48:03.020
Yeah, that was awesome.
That was tremendous.

00:48:03.400 --> 00:48:05.080
And connection really resonates.

00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:10.560
And I like that you also mentioned
that those consistent high performers

00:48:11.040 --> 00:48:16.760
for a team or an organization, they not
only are aligned in their goals for

00:48:17.040 --> 00:48:20.720
whatever the outcome is for that business
or for that sport organization,

00:48:21.320 --> 00:48:23.920
but there's also some
alignment in life values.

00:48:25.160 --> 00:48:25.540
Yeah, right.

00:48:25.565 --> 00:48:30.680
And that creates almost like a synergistic
action for their connection.

00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:32.360
Absolutely.

00:48:32.760 --> 00:48:36.160
And we know that increasingly with the war
for talent,

00:48:37.880 --> 00:48:43.560
that Gen Z, as you would say, is, you
know, that's really what they want.

00:48:43.600 --> 00:48:46.735
Gen Alpha is gonna be exactly the same,
is they wanna feel a sense of belonging.

00:48:46.760 --> 00:48:48.060
They want a sense of purpose.

00:48:48.085 --> 00:48:50.720
They want a sense that
what they're doing matters.

00:48:53.320 --> 00:48:54.580
And that is all about connection.

00:48:54.605 --> 00:48:56.280
They feel connected to it.

00:48:58.600 --> 00:49:05.240
And, you know, I think that
the moving forward into the next 10 years,

00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:11.480
that to get the talent that is required to
succeed in teams,

00:49:12.160 --> 00:49:18.120
whether it's in sport or, you know,
insert industry here,

00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:23.960
that is going to be ever more powerful.

00:49:24.040 --> 00:49:27.360
And, you know, actually the ticket for
entry to be a high-performance

00:49:27.800 --> 00:49:30.775
organization is
you need staff that are connected, you

00:49:30.800 --> 00:49:35.520
need employees that feel connected,
you need customers that feel connected.

00:49:36.760 --> 00:49:38.380
It's the most important thing.

00:49:40.960 --> 00:49:44.720
All right, so my question to you is,
as you sit here now and you have some,

00:49:45.240 --> 00:49:49.815
some years with Synapsing and
consulting amongst a bunch of sport

00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:53.680
organizations as well as
a ton of businesses from around the world,

00:49:54.160 --> 00:49:58.295
if you could go back into sport now,
into one of your former positions, let's

00:49:58.320 --> 00:50:01.000
say Director of Performance,
Knowing what you know now

00:50:01.880 --> 00:50:06.400
with the experience of looking inward,
what would you change about your

00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:08.800
organizational structure or
your own leadership style?

00:50:09.360 --> 00:50:14.120
Hmm, interesting question.

00:50:14.200 --> 00:50:18.015
I think now,
I mean, it's obviously easy with the

00:50:18.040 --> 00:50:22.960
benefit of hindsight, but
I think what I've now got is a broader

00:50:24.040 --> 00:50:30.440
array of tools and frameworks to
which I can apply to a problem.

00:50:30.560 --> 00:50:36.560
So, you know, whereas previously, if, um,
if, if I had an issue with

00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:41.735
an athlete not taking their supplements or
not doing their hydration testing and all

00:50:41.760 --> 00:50:45.775
those sorts of things,
I would have probably approached

00:50:45.800 --> 00:50:48.320
it through an education lens.

00:50:48.360 --> 00:50:53.095
Okay, oh, this, this person doesn't know
why taking their supps or, you

00:50:53.120 --> 00:50:54.920
know, doing a pee test is important.

00:50:55.040 --> 00:50:58.215
And so you'd sit down with them and
educate them again and

00:50:58.240 --> 00:50:59.700
all those sorts of things.

00:51:00.080 --> 00:51:04.680
Um,
if the problem— and, and trust me,

00:51:05.120 --> 00:51:08.240
sports medicine
professionals around the world, that's

00:51:08.360 --> 00:51:12.040
their, that's their one thing, that's
their big tool, is they go and do that.

00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:15.735
They are— we need— they need to be more
educated about why they

00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:17.180
need to do their wellness.

00:51:18.240 --> 00:51:22.200
Um, really is about education, really.

00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:31.520
I reckon many of the problems that we face
in sport are actually marketing problems.

00:51:32.520 --> 00:51:33.920
We don't market things well.

00:51:35.560 --> 00:51:40.855
We don't co-construct our interventions
with the people that we're

00:51:40.880 --> 00:51:41.880
seeking to influence.

00:51:42.760 --> 00:51:47.415
If we go back to something that you
said, Rod, right at the very beginning of

00:51:47.440 --> 00:51:51.080
the chat about ownership and how
organizations need ownership.

00:51:51.520 --> 00:51:52.480
People need ownership.

00:51:53.520 --> 00:51:57.480
People need to feel like the solution that
is in front of them,

00:51:57.840 --> 00:51:59.240
they've helped create.

00:52:01.560 --> 00:52:03.100
That makes it more sticky.

00:52:04.040 --> 00:52:08.015
So I,
now if I went back to being a performance

00:52:08.040 --> 00:52:12.440
director, I would be
looking at using those tools

00:52:12.920 --> 00:52:17.735
of human influence
of marketing to a much more sophisticated

00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:21.975
level than I ever did
because I know that strategically that's

00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:23.300
the most important thing you can do.

00:52:23.325 --> 00:52:25.300
Brett Bartholomew talks about it a lot.

00:52:25.720 --> 00:52:27.480
Nick Winkelman talks about it a lot.

00:52:28.400 --> 00:52:32.360
You know, this is the most important thing
rather than just relying

00:52:33.400 --> 00:52:35.600
on telling people why it's important.

00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:37.960
That's part of it.

00:52:38.240 --> 00:52:40.440
Don't get me wrong, like
education is important.

00:52:41.560 --> 00:52:43.640
But it can't be the only
tool in your toolkit.

00:52:44.360 --> 00:52:47.080
And I think now I've got a much
bigger tool belt.

00:52:49.000 --> 00:52:52.120
Yeah, I want to keep going on that and,
and keep digging there because,

00:52:53.480 --> 00:52:56.415
you know, when you first started talking,
you've challenged that education

00:52:56.440 --> 00:52:57.260
is the most important thing.

00:52:57.285 --> 00:53:00.680
I think now a lot of coaches sit there,
especially in performance world,

00:53:01.120 --> 00:53:04.015
like you mentioned, say, oh, we got to
educate, this is an education problem.

00:53:04.040 --> 00:53:07.200
I think a lot of people agree on that,
but here you're talking, saying this

00:53:07.240 --> 00:53:09.240
is a marketing issue potentially.

00:53:09.320 --> 00:53:15.855
So can you explain or provide an example
maybe that shows the

00:53:15.880 --> 00:53:18.140
difference between the two?
Let's take hydration, right?

00:53:18.165 --> 00:53:21.735
An athlete or a group of athletes that
aren't hydrating well, you think, oh, you

00:53:21.760 --> 00:53:23.655
know what, they just don't appreciate,
they don't understand

00:53:23.680 --> 00:53:24.615
why this is important.

00:53:24.640 --> 00:53:27.560
We need to educate them rather than
tell them that they have to do this.

00:53:28.080 --> 00:53:31.560
How would you change that
then to a marketing solution?

00:53:32.640 --> 00:53:38.480
Yeah, so the way I think about it is when
I when I am coaching people,

00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:46.360
I use something that I just happened upon,
which is a KPI assessment.

00:53:46.640 --> 00:53:50.520
Now, KPI for most people is, you know,
uh, key performance indicator,

00:53:51.480 --> 00:53:53.320
but I think about it slightly differently.

00:53:54.120 --> 00:53:57.240
And for me, the K stands
for knowledge, right?

00:53:57.600 --> 00:54:00.160
So, um, how much does
someone know about this?

00:54:00.240 --> 00:54:04.295
So if we're saying hydration, How much
they know about, you know, what they need

00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:06.740
to do, when they need to do
it, why they need to do it.

00:54:06.800 --> 00:54:16.240
Okay, the P stands for
performance, you know, and,

00:54:16.680 --> 00:54:18.200
you know, how well do they do it.

00:54:19.160 --> 00:54:21.980
So it's not about how well they do it, but
it's how much do they

00:54:22.280 --> 00:54:23.740
implement what they know.

00:54:25.680 --> 00:54:30.120
Right, so you could be a 2 out
of 10 knowledge about hydration.

00:54:31.600 --> 00:54:35.720
But if you implement everything that you
know, if you do everything that you know,

00:54:36.320 --> 00:54:37.360
you'd rate yourself a 10.

00:54:39.760 --> 00:54:45.040
And in order to upgrade that, in order to
get a better outcome, that would tell

00:54:45.080 --> 00:54:46.960
us that we need to focus on education.

00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:49.920
We need to do the knowledge bit, right?

00:54:51.760 --> 00:54:55.000
But let's just say you knew 8 out of 10.

00:54:56.520 --> 00:54:59.415
But you were still performing, you were
implementing what you knew

00:54:59.440 --> 00:55:00.480
at a 2 out of 10 level.

00:55:02.600 --> 00:55:06.760
That would tell us that the gains that
we've got by giving more education

00:55:08.160 --> 00:55:09.040
is marginal.

00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:18.160
Actually, the road bump, so to
speak, is in implementation.

00:55:20.440 --> 00:55:24.080
So we need to do things about habit
formation, about choice curation,

00:55:24.160 --> 00:55:25.320
about choice architecture.

00:55:25.560 --> 00:55:30.680
How do we make this easier for someone
to do so it just becomes their routine?

00:55:33.720 --> 00:55:35.560
And then the I stands for importance.

00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:42.920
Because they could say, you know what,
the knowledge of this, I'm a 2 out of 10.

00:55:44.240 --> 00:55:46.240
Performing it, I'm a 2 out of 10.

00:55:48.080 --> 00:55:51.040
Importance for me, 2 out of 10.

00:55:53.840 --> 00:55:57.840
So in terms of priority, that's never
going to be top of the list for them.

00:55:59.560 --> 00:56:02.400
So just because it's a 10 out of 10 for
you doesn't mean to say it's

00:56:02.480 --> 00:56:03.640
a 10 out of 10 for them.

00:56:07.000 --> 00:56:11.760
Equally, they may say they're a 2 out of
10 for knowledge performance, and

00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:13.640
but importance is 10 out of 10.

00:56:14.200 --> 00:56:17.000
So we've got, we've got some
fertile ground to dig there.

00:56:18.840 --> 00:56:20.900
So everyone's slightly different, right?

00:56:22.720 --> 00:56:26.175
But
I think being able to dig under the

00:56:26.200 --> 00:56:30.415
surface of,
of what the problem is— and then we get

00:56:30.440 --> 00:56:34.135
that, get back to one of your previous
questions about problem and diagnostics—

00:56:34.160 --> 00:56:37.840
it's not that they need
education all the time.

00:56:37.880 --> 00:56:41.360
Sometimes it is,
but sometimes it's just,

00:56:41.760 --> 00:56:45.760
you know what, by the time they've been
asked to do these other things and they

00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:49.600
don't have their hydration pot right
in front of them They forget about it.

00:56:49.760 --> 00:56:52.280
It's important to them.

00:56:52.400 --> 00:56:55.460
They know why they need to do it,
but implementation is just too hard.

00:56:57.320 --> 00:56:59.320
So the fix for that is very different.

00:56:59.480 --> 00:57:02.320
They don't need more
education about hydration.

00:57:03.880 --> 00:57:10.200
They need the hydration urine sample pot
put in front of their locker.

00:57:14.200 --> 00:57:15.740
Does that answer the question?

00:57:17.520 --> 00:57:19.100
Yeah, it's great.
I mean, it's terrific.

00:57:19.125 --> 00:57:23.295
And thanks for challenging,
you know, the thought of just

00:57:23.320 --> 00:57:24.920
education is the most important thing.

00:57:25.000 --> 00:57:27.600
And thanks for that journey of thought.
That was great.

00:57:27.640 --> 00:57:28.095
Thank you.

00:57:28.120 --> 00:57:32.935
So we think it's the most important thing
so often is because people in our sorts

00:57:32.960 --> 00:57:35.320
of positions are heavily educated.

00:57:37.200 --> 00:57:38.880
You know, I've got 3 master's degrees.

00:57:39.040 --> 00:57:40.840
I think education is important.

00:57:40.960 --> 00:57:43.960
I've got the tertiary
education debt to prove it.

00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:52.280
And it's challenging for people like us
that have got university degrees

00:57:53.480 --> 00:57:56.200
to think that maybe education
is not the biggest lever.

00:57:56.680 --> 00:57:57.480
Sometimes it is.

00:57:58.560 --> 00:58:03.280
And when you're speaking to other highly
educated people, it tends to be the case.

00:58:04.720 --> 00:58:06.840
But not every person thinks that.

00:58:09.160 --> 00:58:12.360
And so we need to be a little bit more
sophisticated about how we make impact.

00:58:13.640 --> 00:58:14.200
Yeah, from—

00:58:14.280 --> 00:58:19.040
if it was just about education,
just about education,

00:58:20.520 --> 00:58:23.400
everyone would have a six-pack,
no one would smoke,

00:58:24.840 --> 00:58:26.860
everyone would drive at the speed limit.

00:58:28.640 --> 00:58:29.840
It's not just about education.

00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:33.160
It's, trust me, it's really important,
but it's not the only thing.

00:58:34.560 --> 00:58:34.660
Yeah.

00:58:34.685 --> 00:58:37.415
And then I think about coming from a
performance role and, and a strength

00:58:37.440 --> 00:58:40.440
conditioning coach role where traditional
strength conditioning coach

00:58:41.200 --> 00:58:44.840
for a long time, there wasn't
even a huge educational piece.

00:58:45.640 --> 00:58:46.415
That wasn't the main value.

00:58:46.440 --> 00:58:49.600
It's like, hey, this is, I, I know that I
have the education, but this is about

00:58:49.720 --> 00:58:52.360
coach to athlete and it's one way and
it's, hey, this is what we're

00:58:52.385 --> 00:58:54.175
telling you to do, so just go do it.

00:58:54.200 --> 00:58:57.695
Now you have modern strength coaches and,
uh, trying to be like, no, education

00:58:57.720 --> 00:59:00.540
is the most important thing.
We have to educate these athletes more.

00:59:00.565 --> 00:59:02.695
I have to educate these individuals more.

00:59:02.720 --> 00:59:06.280
And then to hear you kind of push on that
and say, well, it's actually—

00:59:06.720 --> 00:59:10.140
there's more to it, there's more depth to
that than just education— is good to hear.

00:59:10.440 --> 00:59:10.695
Yeah.

00:59:10.720 --> 00:59:14.520
Oh, look, I'm looking at your t-shirt
and education's the first word on there.

00:59:14.560 --> 00:59:17.120
But, um, like, sometimes it is.

00:59:17.640 --> 00:59:19.640
Sometimes that's the
biggest rock you can push.

00:59:20.360 --> 00:59:24.000
And, you know, for, for rookie
athletes, that's probably it.

00:59:24.040 --> 00:59:26.340
Or rookie strength coaches,
that's probably it.

00:59:26.680 --> 00:59:28.320
Because they've just— they don't know.

00:59:29.600 --> 00:59:32.240
But there comes a point where you know
enough,

00:59:34.560 --> 00:59:38.520
and the barrier is not
about how much you know, it's about how

00:59:38.640 --> 00:59:41.440
well you implement what you do know.

00:59:45.040 --> 00:59:45.695
Yeah, that's great.

00:59:45.720 --> 00:59:49.000
So again, yeah, not discrediting the
importance of education, but just that

00:59:49.025 --> 00:59:52.655
there's more to it sometimes, especially
as you zoom out and look at an entire

00:59:52.680 --> 00:59:54.000
organization or an entire team.

00:59:54.560 --> 00:59:57.760
So that's good, uh, good framework there.

00:59:58.120 --> 01:00:02.840
And I like that I read, uh, in an article,
the first half of your career,

01:00:03.600 --> 01:00:06.860
you said that you were helping people win
the weekend, but now in the second half,

01:00:06.885 --> 01:00:11.320
that shifted to being a good ancestor,
and that you prioritize working with

01:00:11.400 --> 01:00:13.740
individuals and organizations that have
similar long-term and

01:00:13.765 --> 01:00:14.840
enterprising mindsets.

01:00:15.640 --> 01:00:18.160
You hit on it a bit earlier in our
conversation, but how much do you

01:00:18.185 --> 01:00:21.055
attribute working with like-minded
individuals to the

01:00:21.080 --> 01:00:22.540
success of your business?

01:00:28.560 --> 01:00:29.740
Interesting question.

01:00:30.480 --> 01:00:32.200
I don't know is the answer.

01:00:33.440 --> 01:00:38.000
But what I would say is they don't need to
be like-minded to me, but we have to share

01:00:38.640 --> 01:00:40.240
a similar value set.

01:00:40.800 --> 01:00:44.095
So I actually,
I go looking for people that don't think

01:00:44.120 --> 01:00:47.400
like me because that's the way I learn.

01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:52.720
So I don't think like-minded
is necessarily the right word, but having

01:00:52.800 --> 01:00:55.200
a similar value set I think is important.

01:00:56.240 --> 01:01:01.600
And by that I'm talking about
this concept about being brave,

01:01:02.120 --> 01:01:06.800
about taking risks, about
being honest, being transparent.

01:01:07.160 --> 01:01:09.460
They're the sorts of
things that I really value.

01:01:10.760 --> 01:01:15.880
And what I would say
is that I test that with organizations.

01:01:17.600 --> 01:01:24.720
So even with an executive coaching thing,
um, let's just say, um,

01:01:25.720 --> 01:01:33.895
you ask me to do some coaching with you,
um, I, I turn away probably somewhere

01:01:33.920 --> 01:01:38.695
between 50 and 60% of applicants
because I just, you know, I might not have

01:01:38.720 --> 01:01:42.575
the time, or, or
more likely it's because I just don't

01:01:42.600 --> 01:01:49.400
think there's a real
fit between us because, you know, you

01:01:49.880 --> 01:01:51.920
might have a different
value set or whatever.

01:01:52.720 --> 01:01:58.080
And one of my things that I do
is I won't take someone, someone on for

01:01:58.160 --> 01:02:01.640
coaching
unless they've spoken to another coach

01:02:01.920 --> 01:02:08.295
because I want them to come willingly
knowing that, you know, they've, they've

01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:09.760
tried a couple of different options.

01:02:11.400 --> 01:02:16.160
So, and I know, I know that I've lost
clients by doing that, and that's,

01:02:16.600 --> 01:02:18.640
that's absolutely perfect.

01:02:19.360 --> 01:02:21.800
You know, it's maybe it's a
poor business model,

01:02:22.960 --> 01:02:27.695
um, but I know that if you— if I said to
you, Gabe, um, you need to go and speak to

01:02:27.720 --> 01:02:32.895
another coach before I coach you, um,
if you go and speak to someone else and

01:02:32.920 --> 01:02:35.240
they're a better fit for
you, that's, that's a win.

01:02:35.400 --> 01:02:36.780
Geez, that's a good win for you.

01:02:36.805 --> 01:02:41.040
It's a good win for that other coach,
and it's actually a good win for me

01:02:41.840 --> 01:02:45.775
because I wouldn't have got the same sort
of impact with you as I

01:02:45.800 --> 01:02:46.800
might have someone else.

01:02:48.040 --> 01:02:51.560
But if you go and speak to another coach
and you say, you know what, actually

01:02:52.360 --> 01:02:56.160
Dave's the guy that I really want to speak
to, you come back to me

01:02:56.760 --> 01:03:03.240
and we work really, really like
so well together, and that's tried tested.

01:03:03.960 --> 01:03:07.880
I do that all the time with
every single person that I coach.

01:03:09.240 --> 01:03:14.800
So it's for that reason that I get
really good impact with coaching.

01:03:15.520 --> 01:03:19.120
And so it's a long way of saying,
yeah, it is fundamental to my

01:03:19.600 --> 01:03:24.695
business, I think, um,
that I'm selective about the projects that

01:03:24.720 --> 01:03:29.440
I work on, whether that's an individual
or whether that's a an organization.

01:03:29.720 --> 01:03:32.680
I, I do it with the ones that
I have the most impact with.

01:03:37.240 --> 01:03:39.960
Yeah, that's terrific, and I appreciate
that along with

01:03:40.680 --> 01:03:43.640
all the other information that you
provided today and going

01:03:43.680 --> 01:03:45.320
in depth about Synapsing.

01:03:45.360 --> 01:03:48.720
One of my questions to you then is,
as you look forward, right, into the next

01:03:48.745 --> 01:03:51.720
10 years, 20 years, what's the
next step or venture for Synapsing?

01:03:58.200 --> 01:04:04.400
So I like the framework of, of you don't
need to know every step of the journey.

01:04:04.480 --> 01:04:06.960
You need to know
A, B, Z, as you would say.

01:04:07.640 --> 01:04:09.680
So you need to know where
you're at at the moment.

01:04:09.840 --> 01:04:13.015
You need to know your endpoint of where
you want to get to, and you need to

01:04:13.040 --> 01:04:14.440
know your first step to get there.

01:04:16.080 --> 01:04:20.040
So I don't think in a complex world you
can't go from

01:04:21.920 --> 01:04:25.040
B, C, D, E, F, G, blah, blah, blah, blah,
because by the time you've got

01:04:25.320 --> 01:04:28.120
anything past E, it's just guesswork.

01:04:30.160 --> 01:04:36.335
So the next step for me is
to be able to just continue building out

01:04:36.360 --> 01:04:41.680
my, my core competencies,
showing that I've got value for

01:04:42.320 --> 01:04:46.120
individuals and corporates,
um, businesses.

01:04:46.400 --> 01:04:50.215
I, I'm really good at doing
organizational reviews inside and outside

01:04:50.240 --> 01:04:53.960
of sport, so I'll keep doing that and
the business will keep doing that stuff.

01:04:54.640 --> 01:04:58.200
From a selfish perspective, it would be
great to do more work in the US just

01:04:58.240 --> 01:05:02.680
because the time zones
are a little bit more social for me.

01:05:02.920 --> 01:05:06.760
Like it's pretty easy morning for me,
afternoon for you the day before,

01:05:08.200 --> 01:05:12.480
whereas doing work in the UK is quite hard
because of the difference in time zones.

01:05:15.320 --> 01:05:21.880
And so it'll be about building out the the
Synapsing footprint in the US.

01:05:22.040 --> 01:05:24.440
Optimize that I mentioned
earlier is based in Boston.

01:05:24.880 --> 01:05:31.480
I do a bit of work with other
organizations, colleges around the traps.

01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:37.935
So it'll be about building that out and
continuing to show value in what we do

01:05:37.960 --> 01:05:40.600
in terms of decision-making and strategy.

01:05:40.760 --> 01:05:42.040
That's the big thing.

01:05:45.160 --> 01:05:45.660
That's great.

01:05:45.685 --> 01:05:49.040
And I wanna make sure that
we allot some time for it, but if someone

01:05:49.120 --> 01:05:55.015
wanted to learn more about Synapsing or
even Optimize Mind Performance, where

01:05:55.040 --> 01:05:56.980
can they go to learn more information?

01:05:57.600 --> 01:06:02.120
optimisemindperformance.
com is a good place to go there.

01:06:03.760 --> 01:06:07.240
And you know, we're still
in the very, very early stages.

01:06:07.320 --> 01:06:12.935
We've just got a soft launch, so we're on
the, you know, App Store and Android

01:06:12.960 --> 01:06:14.860
Store and all those sorts of things.

01:06:16.720 --> 01:06:20.960
But we're building out our portfolio of
organizations, which is

01:06:21.440 --> 01:06:22.960
super, super, super exciting.

01:06:23.720 --> 01:06:30.095
In terms of Synapsing,
people can email, so david.

01:06:30.120 --> 01:06:33.215
joyce@synapsing.
co or hello@synapsing.

01:06:33.240 --> 01:06:34.280
co.

01:06:36.120 --> 01:06:41.640
LinkedIn, Twitter, David—
no, sorry, David G Joyce.

01:06:41.920 --> 01:06:43.100
I think that's what it is.

01:06:44.000 --> 01:06:45.400
They're probably the easiest ways.

01:06:46.560 --> 01:06:49.840
To be honest, Gabe, I've not done a whole
heap of business development work in the

01:06:49.865 --> 01:06:53.535
traditional sense of, you know, having
flashy websites and all

01:06:53.560 --> 01:06:54.480
those sorts of things.

01:06:55.920 --> 01:06:59.895
Our business development is doing good
work with good people and

01:06:59.920 --> 01:07:01.080
having good relationships.

01:07:01.720 --> 01:07:03.400
So that's primarily where it is.

01:07:03.480 --> 01:07:06.295
So if people are wanting a flashy website,
unfortunately they're going to

01:07:06.320 --> 01:07:07.615
be a little bit disappointed.

01:07:07.640 --> 01:07:10.800
Maybe that's something for— maybe that's
the next step that I need to be able to

01:07:10.825 --> 01:07:13.160
do, is, is, is do that sort of thing.

01:07:13.560 --> 01:07:18.760
Um, but you know, the old school way of,
of email or Twitter or LinkedIn is a

01:07:18.880 --> 01:07:20.740
probably a pretty good way to get going.

01:07:21.680 --> 01:07:25.000
Yeah, well, David mentioned it, you
can follow him on Twitter @DavidGJoyce.

01:07:25.240 --> 01:07:27.840
And then obviously
we encourage everybody who's listening in

01:07:27.960 --> 01:07:31.015
to check out your co-edited book, High
Performance Training for

01:07:31.040 --> 01:07:32.060
Sports, the second edition.

01:07:32.085 --> 01:07:34.860
It's available in a ton of places.
I have a copy of my own.

01:07:35.120 --> 01:07:37.575
And it's filled with a bunch of great
practical information

01:07:37.600 --> 01:07:38.860
by leading experts in the field.

01:07:38.885 --> 01:07:41.840
So make sure
that you pick up your own copy.

01:07:42.080 --> 01:07:44.480
And David will include all that stuff in
the episode,

01:07:45.720 --> 01:07:47.400
in the published episode notes as well.

01:07:47.480 --> 01:07:48.480
So thank you for that.

01:07:48.880 --> 01:07:51.735
Two questions here to finish up,
two kind of fun ones for you.

01:07:51.760 --> 01:07:55.520
Number one, what does your own
exercise routine look like these days?

01:07:57.080 --> 01:07:57.400
Right.

01:07:57.720 --> 01:08:01.280
So I've just come off a year where
my goal was to run every day.

01:08:02.880 --> 01:08:06.120
So, and the distance was
determined by the month.

01:08:07.040 --> 01:08:10.535
So
by December, I was running 12 kilometers a

01:08:10.560 --> 01:08:14.040
day because it's a 12-month,
um, which was good.

01:08:14.080 --> 01:08:19.560
So I got, got 365 runs in, which, um,
which I was pleased with.

01:08:20.040 --> 01:08:24.895
Um, but funnily enough, I know that I'm—
running is easy for me, and

01:08:24.920 --> 01:08:26.120
I'm a land-based animal.

01:08:26.640 --> 01:08:29.440
So my goal this year
is to become a swimmer.

01:08:30.320 --> 01:08:34.960
So I'm swimming, swimming 3 times, 3 times
a week, which, you know, I, I'm,

01:08:35.400 --> 01:08:40.440
I'm a good enough swimmer to get into and
out of danger, um, primarily into danger.

01:08:41.160 --> 01:08:46.375
Um, so I want to be really
comfortable and confident in, in the open

01:08:46.400 --> 01:08:48.200
water and do some big open water swims.

01:08:49.120 --> 01:08:51.240
Um, and it's just about
getting back in the gym.

01:08:51.280 --> 01:08:54.840
We're like, when you're, when you're
running for, um, 12 kilometers a day,

01:08:55.440 --> 01:08:56.740
you've only got so many hours in the day.

01:08:56.765 --> 01:09:01.240
And so the the, the gym work, um, slipped
behind a little bit, so I need to do that.

01:09:01.320 --> 01:09:04.720
And when I, when I do too much cardio
stuff, I lose too much weight, so,

01:09:05.320 --> 01:09:08.335
um, I need to, to
get a little bit bulkier, which is

01:09:08.360 --> 01:09:09.500
going to help my swimming as well.

01:09:09.525 --> 01:09:15.080
So, um, yeah, just,
um, gym 3 times a week,

01:09:15.640 --> 01:09:22.280
um, lifting fairly, you know,
it won't be at all impressive

01:09:22.320 --> 01:09:23.815
to any of your listeners.

01:09:23.840 --> 01:09:26.600
Um, swimming 3 times a week, I run a
couple of times a week, um,

01:09:27.040 --> 01:09:29.520
and I'm gonna do the City to Surf, which
is the world's biggest

01:09:29.560 --> 01:09:31.200
fun run in Australia.

01:09:31.320 --> 01:09:35.935
I'm gonna do that barefoot this year,
which for no reason other than just be

01:09:35.960 --> 01:09:41.015
something interesting to do
and gives me something interesting to talk

01:09:41.040 --> 01:09:43.440
about at dinner parties for 12 seconds.

01:09:43.960 --> 01:09:49.280
And I'll row a marathon on the Concept2.

01:09:49.560 --> 01:09:52.960
So there's a bit in there
for the year for me, I think.

01:09:55.040 --> 01:09:55.980
No kidding, that's great.

01:09:56.005 --> 01:09:59.760
I'm guessing 2024 is going
to be a cycling year, maybe.

01:10:00.400 --> 01:10:02.000
Yeah, well, possibly, possibly.

01:10:02.160 --> 01:10:05.895
Although cycling,
cycling is something that I've always in

01:10:05.920 --> 01:10:11.360
my head I've said that's for,
for older people, um, and I'm fighting

01:10:11.480 --> 01:10:15.000
like hell to be, uh, to avoid that label.

01:10:15.160 --> 01:10:19.080
So who knows, I might, I might try and
do something a little bit more explosive.

01:10:20.680 --> 01:10:24.240
All right, well,
maybe get yourself a Keiser indoor bike.

01:10:24.720 --> 01:10:25.920
I got mine right here.

01:10:26.520 --> 01:10:29.040
All right, last question for you.

01:10:29.120 --> 01:10:33.280
Not sure how much you follow golf, but
I'm a big golf fan, so I had to ask you.

01:10:34.480 --> 01:10:37.560
Jason Day, are we going to see him win
another PGA tournament at any point?

01:10:37.600 --> 01:10:40.320
Wow, geez.
Um, he will play well.

01:10:40.400 --> 01:10:42.400
He just had a good weekend
here at Torrey Pines.

01:10:42.960 --> 01:10:49.560
Yeah, so, so Jason and Cam Smith, like,
the Australian public get

01:10:49.600 --> 01:10:50.760
right behind those two.

01:10:52.280 --> 01:10:56.440
And Cam's having
a really, really good couple of years,

01:10:57.040 --> 01:11:01.560
and he appeals to the everyday Australian.
Of course.

01:11:01.960 --> 01:11:03.080
Yeah.

01:11:03.160 --> 01:11:11.120
So, yeah, look, we would love to see
those guys lift some more silverware.

01:11:11.240 --> 01:11:14.400
So, yeah, everyone here
will be right behind them.

01:11:15.400 --> 01:11:15.935
For sure.
Yeah.

01:11:15.960 --> 01:11:18.880
And you have Adam Scott has been the model
of consistency for years,

01:11:19.400 --> 01:11:21.160
and he gets finer with age.

01:11:21.240 --> 01:11:24.600
So it's good to see Jason be
healthy and see him playing well.

01:11:24.680 --> 01:11:28.080
Cam Smith, if anyone who knows me
knows, I'm a huge, huge Cam Smith fan.

01:11:28.240 --> 01:11:30.240
So, uh, he's my pick.

01:11:30.960 --> 01:11:34.360
And we've got Minjee Lee
in there on the girls' tour as well.

01:11:34.400 --> 01:11:37.480
So some great players
coming out of Australia.

01:11:37.520 --> 01:11:42.160
So you know me, I'll be rooting for
Cam Smith when it comes time for Augusta.

01:11:42.640 --> 01:11:45.360
This April, so hopefully he can get it
done cuz he, I thought he

01:11:45.385 --> 01:11:47.240
had it last year, but yeah.
Yeah.

01:11:47.280 --> 01:11:49.080
It was, it was close.
It was close.

01:11:49.480 --> 01:11:49.660
Yeah.

01:11:49.685 --> 01:11:52.320
But he obviously did a great
job there for the Open.

01:11:52.360 --> 01:11:53.500
So that was pretty fun to see.

01:11:53.525 --> 01:11:55.840
So anyway, thank you
so much for your time.

01:11:55.880 --> 01:11:57.360
Really appreciate it.

01:11:57.680 --> 01:12:01.135
Enjoyed, you know, the last hour or so
talking with you and connecting with you

01:12:01.160 --> 01:12:04.140
and learning more about Synapsing,
obviously doing a tremendous job globally

01:12:04.165 --> 01:12:08.040
and looking forward to continued great
work that you are doing right right now.

01:12:08.280 --> 01:12:08.895
So thank you.

01:12:08.920 --> 01:12:12.880
No, I really, really appreciate your
interest in here and your questions, Gabe,

01:12:13.200 --> 01:12:21.200
and look forward to seeing you
in, well, a couple of days.

01:12:26.040 --> 01:12:28.935
We appreciate you tuning in to this
episode of the Keiser

01:12:28.960 --> 01:12:30.360
Human Performance Podcast.

01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:34.520
To stay up to date on all things Keiser,
follow us @KeiserFitness

01:12:34.960 --> 01:12:37.040
on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook.

01:12:37.800 --> 01:12:40.680
For more content, you can visit our Keiser
Fitness YouTube page

01:12:41.120 --> 01:12:43.735
and at our website, www.
kaiser.

01:12:43.760 --> 01:12:44.560
com.

01:12:45.120 --> 01:12:51.640
Thank you and have a great day.