Dr. Sandro Freitas: Powerpenia

In this episode of the Keiser Human Performance Podcast, the conversation explores the concept of powerpenia, the age-related decline in muscular power, and why it may be even more critical than strength when it comes to maintaining function and independence.

The discussion breaks down how loss of power impacts everyday movements like standing up, walking, and preventing falls, and why traditional strength training alone may not be enough. Emphasis is placed on training with intent, speed, and explosiveness to preserve and restore power as we age.

This episode highlights the growing importance of power-focused training in both clinical and fitness settings, offering practical insights for coaches, practitioners, and anyone looking to maintain performance and quality of life over time.

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All right, welcome back to the Keiser Human Performance podcast. I'm here with Sandro

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Friotas. Sandro, how are you my friend? Thank you.  I'm good. And you, Gabe? I'm doing awesome. I'm

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doing great. So, first things first, we have the  Powerpina conference coming up in July in Lisbon,

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Portugal. Do you want to take a minute to talk  about this event? Yeah, this event where we will

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go in deep uh about uh PowerPI uh concept which  is a very recent concept that was proposed in

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literature in fact just has two years. But right  now is being spread worldwide and because of the

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global interest on the concept we decided  to organize here a conference in Lisbon

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uh at the faculty where I work uh in the a very  beautiful time of the year because it will be

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summer with very nice good food and weather.  So if people don't like the conference at least

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they would like the country. Maybe they can uh  come to Lisbon do some surfing at the very Yeah,

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you can do surfing. You can do both activities  in in land and in the sea. So, you have plenty

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of offer for someone who maybe has never been  to Lisbon before. The go-to culinary experience,

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what food, what dish do they need to have if  they're coming there? They have plenty. Like,

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do you know uh typical dishes, one of the typical  dishes is made with codfish. And in Portugal,

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we don't capture directly codfish. So, we import  codfish. So we are specialized and in importing

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and cooking the codfish because most of coffish  they come from the north of the globe and the

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Iceland and then they sent to here and I think  that we are the country that best makes codfish

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food. What a fun fact. There you go. Well maybe  we'll have to have a separate episode on on food

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in Portugal. But um another fun fact actually  one of the keynote speakers for this powerpina

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conference Dr. Tanaka was actually one of my  professors when I was at grad school at University

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of Texas. Oh, that's awesome. I never met him  in person. I he had I had opportunity to talk

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with you first time virtually in the first seminar  that we did about Por opinion when we launched the

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concert which was two years ago in Brazil. Yeah.  I mean sounds like you're going to have some smart

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people there. So if anyone uh is available in  the summertime, you want to go out to Portugal,

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have a nice time, learn a little bit, uh take  part in a great conference, make sure you check

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that out. We'll drop a link to the conference  in the episode notes. Yes. By the way, in fact,

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we have limit um places for people to watch  here at the conference. So, unfortunately,

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we cannot attend all the people. But because of  that, we decided to create virtual registration.

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So, people can assist globally from any spot of of  the world. They can just register and assist the

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event online and part participate online also to  submit abstracts and works online which is a nice

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opportunity to give a contribution. So we can  better understand the powerpina concept. Okay,

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great. So let's dive into it then. Let's dive into  the discussion today and that is powerpina. So to

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start for someone listening today who maybe is  unfamiliar with this term, why don't we just

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start with a simple definition of the term. Yes,  powerpina the word itself it's anism which means

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that the prefix comes from angloaxonic from the  the English and the the suffix comes from the

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Greek. So we have power and power everyone in  the world understands what is power like you go

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because we use very commonly power in different  cultures. So they understand although power can

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have different meanings even in Portuguese uh but  globally they know what is power not the power to

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act the social power which is al also power but  the mechanical power pen is means loss uh power

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pin is a concept which means age related loss of  mechanical uh power of motor power uh but also

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uh uh disease and physical inactivity related loss  of uh mechanical power. Thank you for the simple

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definition. My understanding is in the last few  years right with your team this really became a

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central focus. So explain how this research  project how this research that was published

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in 2024 really came together. Yeah. In fact uh  normally when people become aware of the problems

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they try to start the Olympic solutions to for  the problems and back in 2020 more or less I I

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started made making research on this topic um  and collaborating with the research groups and

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and more close to to 2024. In fact, it was 2023  where the first time that I thought together with

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my colleagues on this idea on power opinion. The  numbers um uh at that time made me to think in a

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strategy and something to to fight against for  like when I born in 1984 there was more or less

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5 billion people in the world. Nowadays there  is like uh I think more this this number that

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you are showing is not updated. It's like 8.5  billion people but in 2026 at least 10 billion

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people will exist. Oh 2650. So there's an error  like in in in 2050 there will be around 10 more

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than 10 billion living. And when you look to the  percentage of people age more than 60 years it is

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in it will increase a lot. So there will be very  stress among the the dem demographic dynamics and

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the infrastructures and we have to have a target  to fight against the the unhealthy behaviors and

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the the difficulty to to to get health. So that's  why we we decided to give a name for the marker

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that probably better represents life like vitality  which we name it polyropenia because we we have

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noted that with age you lose mass. In fact when  you born you have more or less the day you born

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you have more or less 25% of muscle mass in your  body and you may increase during your lifespan

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uh until 40%. It depends if you train or not  but let's say 35 if you are man or women but

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um when you you look to streng you can you have  strong ability for instance babies they can grab

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uh grip the their hand grasp do the palmer reflex  and they can support their own eight so they have

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a lot of strength in their their hands but when  you look to power the power reserve is low when

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you born like because you cannot produce work  at a faster rate which mean that when you born

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you have very low reserves And then with your  lifespan, you get your peak very early with

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um of power. Later you get the peak of your  strength and then later you get the peak of

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your mass but you start sooner to lose power. Then  you start losing strength and then you start to

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losing mass but in the end the day that you die  you still have mass muscle mass in your body.

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You can still produce strength with rigor mortis  okay but zero power. So power is a key marker of

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your health especially when you are aging and in  fact it means that the the rate loss of power with

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with chronological age is is very high compared to  strength and muscle mass and we are living in days

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where we talk about sarcopenia. So it's a medical  concept since uh 2016 but no one talks in medical

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community about parenia. So that's why we decided  to give a name because we we wanted to target

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uh our enemy let's say like this. So you brought  up a ton of great stuff and right sarcopenia,

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dopenia, muscle mass loss, strength loss, these  are very familiar terms. Um why do you think

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powerpia up until 2024 was so overlooked or not  not appreciated to the full extent in which yeah

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let's say let's let's look to the history when did  sarcopenia born when there was sufficient evidence

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showing that muscle mass was relevant when didorn  when there was sufficient research showing that

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strength is important when did power born when  There was not enough but already some minimal

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research very conf convincent showing that power  is really a good marker of health and vitality

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more than health vitality because if you become  unhappy depressed for instance you lose power you

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don't lose muscle mass depressed people what they  don't have is power they they have muscle mass but

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depressed people like uh you have Olympic medals  that they have a lot of muscle mass and strength

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and sometimes They don't have power. If you get  you if you get acute disease like you get um

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I don't know how do you call it in English.  second now I forgot to say in English but if

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you get a grip like uh let's say in Portuguese co  okay um you you lose quickly power but you don't

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lose mask power is very sensitive like let's  suppose you don't sleep like last night lose

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strength you don't lose those muscle mass you lose  power is very sensitive marker of your vitality so

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let's dive into this phenomenon and understand  it better powerpia at the at the physiological

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level. What are the main drivers of power decline  as we age? Yeah, let me ask you Gabby, can you

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move for the the slide? Yeah, before moving to the  to the mechanisms just to explain because this is

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the main picture. This is the main tactical model  of parenia. It's the comparison between power,

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strength and muscle mass which has which which  are correlated to sarcopenia dilipina parenia.

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Although power sarcopenia nowadays it is  formally determined using strength and not

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um mus muscle mass itself. So which is a little  bit confusing nowadays even among the community

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um uh the medical community. So there are key  features of this model. So we lose to mass but

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we lose with much faster rate power and with less  compared to to power strength and the one set of

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decline occurs first for power and the the decline  accelerates later at some points in life and there

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is a curious fact that there is some tasks that  people they stop doing during their lifespan of

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power. For instance there are people living  worldwide that they can walk but they cannot

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jump anymore. So those people they gave the last  jump in life at certain point in life you know so

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they will not go back again. Maybe some of them  if they really do some training they can recover

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their ability to jump but some they they will  not and they al and and and and we have to take

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care of the those people because although they  are not able to jump which implies that probably

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their running will also be very difficult. they  can walk and we can train them to increase their

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quality of life and giving capacity to be included  on society. So power we lose much faster than

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uh strength and mass. What is the the the  physiological mechanism? We decided I I

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prepared some slides if you could could move  further I think um a little bit more just to

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show you a thing. No, I I think it's before.  Yeah. Uh it's a study that we did with very

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old people. No, it's not this. Go go go go  go go. Maybe the Yeah, this one. Okay. So,

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what is this? This is data from a study which  she did. We I collaborate with a Brazilian group

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which is leaded by professor hon in Brazil  and professor Kerlin Padesh that they they

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quantified muscle mass with DEXA. They quantified  strength of the extension and flexors and rate of

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first development during the extension. So rate  of force development is not power because you

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are quantifying force in a zometric mode and you  have to have displacement to quantify power. Rate

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of first development is a very close parameter  to to power production and we we they tested

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people with more than 90 years old. So the more  old people person was 104 years. So and living

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living with more than 19 years it's very rare in  the world. You know people die normally before

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that and then try to see what was the perimeter  that was associated with chronological age. Among

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those sample of individuals with more than 19  years there was no association with muscle mass,

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no association with strength but there was  association with rate of force development.

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What does that mean? That mean that you lose  the ability to to contract in a fast manner. And

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um to contrast fast, it's very complex because you  need fundamentally neural variables that allow to

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to to input on the muscles a very high discharge  rate of the motor units, but al also coordination,

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intramuscular and intramuscular coordination to  make the the muscul contract very quickly. So in

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the end, the soldiers, let's says, they no matter  if how bad they are, you can still produce power.

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What you need really need is a good general. So  if if we just rewind for a second, I want to take

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a look at this graph here and we start talking  about power poin. You talked about, you know,

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power falling off before muscle mass, before  strength. For the average person that maybe hasn't

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done a lot of training in their life, just the  normal person, at what point do they start to see

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or experience a more significant decrease in power  in their lifespan? Right? In this graph here, we

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have the age right from right in this x-axis. When  can we expect some more significant declines in

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power as we age? Okay, let's make I will present  you in this manner. Most fastest guy running using

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Bolt. He reached his world record when he was  22 years old. The strongest man which I can not

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remember his name because yeah which he he the  snatch and the clean together he lifted almost

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500 kg. So he reached the alltime record when he  was 28. Last year Mr. Olympia he reached he he had

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a lot of muscle right like muscal and he was 32.  So the onset that you can be logical like train

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and and and get your record in life occurs with  in this manner. Okay. First power then strength

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and then muscle mass. Okay. So you can first train  for top power then give up go for competition of

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strength and then give up go for competition of  Mr. Olympia you can steal. So the opportunity to

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increase your tank occurs very early in life. So  you can reach your tank very early you know and

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then what you have to do to keep your power up is  to manage well. So and then is not just a matter

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of power training and normal people just think on  power training. If you go to slide 14 for please

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you can see like what is the the model that I'm  promoting right now together with my colleagues.

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uh this is a ba very basic epothetic model of  motor power development and also conserving

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conserving sometimes you don't need to train you  just have to sleep well sometimes you don't need

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to train you just have to have good nutrition  and sometimes you just have to manage your stress

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because no stress at all sometimes it's not good  okay you have to have very low level of stress to

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make you increase your tonus okay your motivations  because you when you don't have nothing to do you

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get bored so you get depressed you know and that's  not good to to produce power. So and I think the

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key is to give training according these valuables.  I should train when I have good patterns of sleep,

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good patterns of nutrition and good patterns of  mental stress. So that's why uh I I I normally

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say be careful with the power concept because you  should not train power every day. But that's not

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the key. It's always a multicomponent you know and  some people may may need more and some people may

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need less although uh there is evidence that's  showing that if you do supervised program and

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oriented program with a professional you don't  get hurt but still the risk increases when you do

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power training of course. So we think really until  your mid20s to late 20s that is your time up until

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that point to build up as much power reserve as  you can. Yeah. Yes. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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Because let's say it's good to things to have a  big tank but also to have full. Okay. Right. So,

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people may have a low tank but they can have a lot  always full you know. So, and what is fuel? Fool

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is a combination of training, sleep, nutrition and  mental stress. Right. Right. So, really the goal

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would be to increase the tank as big as you can  though. But once you get the tank to that size,

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being able to fuel the tank as time goes on.  Yes, having a good reserve is good or I would

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not say to have the maximum reserve as you can.  I think there is optimal level of reserve because

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it's very challengeable to have very big big big  reserve like us and bolt have and to preserve that

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level of reserve because if you get if if in your  young age you have very big levels of power the

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rate loss with with chronological age will be much  higher compared to other people. For instance,

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the wi women they have less power than men, but  they manage better than men, you know, with life.

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Women women left live more than men, you know,  right? So, if you have a larger tank, there is

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then a significant drop off and you really need to  view that within the context of your life and life

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habits to determine if that is a significant issue  or not. Yeah. Yeah. So, like have a reserve, have

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a good tank, a lot of fool. Sometimes fool is more  important than the tank. All right. If we think

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about attenuating the loss of power over time,  what are the key ingredients that somebody needs

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to consider in order to put themselves in the best  position possible to not lose power as they age

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or to help slow down the rate of loss? As I said  like basing with this model like this is a model

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of conserving and developing like or developing  and conserving motor power you know. So I have to

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rewrite there on the topic because I will write a  a manuscript to help people to understand at least

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share my view how people can conserve better their  power with life. As I said is not just a matter of

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training. Sometimes people should not train and  slip. Okay? Because I we have when we train we

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have to have motivation. We have to have the risk  of injury has to be low because and they have to

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and people have to have the wish of training  you know is is this is motivation right? Yeah.

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Because if you don't have you it's not you you you  can have a personal trainer pushing him like say

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okay let's do as fast as you can but but in the  end he is not giving the the best help. So there

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is certain conditions so people can make power  training which helps two things increase the

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tank and also put the fuel inside. For instance  if you just eat and you eat and and you train

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you will put much more fuel inside in your body  cells okay than just eating. So that's why food

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is not just a matter of nutrition. The training  is a trigger to increase fool to your body cells.

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So and you have a lot of issues and methodological  considerations for instance like uh the focus when

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you are training if you are thinking your body  so having internal focus in your body is not

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the best approach you you must have external you  know focus because in that way you will be faster

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methodological aspects like this may potentiate  your gains. Awesome. Let's let's pivot here to

00:19:46.800 --> 00:19:52.560
assessing power. Okay. And maybe the best ways to  go about assessing power. How should practitioners

00:19:52.560 --> 00:19:59.680
be thinking about assessing poweria, assessing  power in a practical setting today? Okay. Nowadays

00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:06.400
there is a common test which is sit to stand that  normal people apply to old people. Sometimes young

00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:12.960
people they're already old. Okay. People with 50  years they are already old. But this test has some

00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:19.440
limitations. And a particular limitation of this  test is twofold. First there is a ceiling effect

00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:25.520
when you do the sit to stand and you have a lot of  variation 5 seconds sit to stand or 30 seconds or

00:20:25.520 --> 00:20:30.400
60 seconds and depending your life stage sometimes  one test is better than another and I can give

00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:35.600
recommendations about that but moving forward this  test has another limitation with this is this is

00:20:35.600 --> 00:20:43.120
a submaximal test so a sub submaximal task you  do not approach the limits of power you know and

00:20:43.120 --> 00:20:49.280
that's why uh and in the end the test itself it's  a performance test. It's not a power test because

00:20:49.280 --> 00:20:56.160
we don't quantify velocity and force directly. So  we furer from from the the performance. So these

00:20:56.160 --> 00:21:03.120
three main limitations put us like still a good  approach because this test has relation depending

00:21:03.120 --> 00:21:09.360
on your physical condition and your chronological  age. It it has some meaning like to to recommend

00:21:09.360 --> 00:21:14.560
people okay you're good you're not good to say  but you want to be more specific and especially

00:21:14.560 --> 00:21:22.400
if you are more physical cap with more physical  capacity and uh also more than physical capacity

00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:31.360
uh if you're younger you can modify the test for  instance you can easil um this lady which is my

00:21:31.360 --> 00:21:40.000
mom okay um so that's that's a business. Let her  go. Yeah. Look. So, she was at this this time that

00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:47.280
we did this video, she was 72. I she's now uh 75.  And it was interesting because at that time she

00:21:47.280 --> 00:21:54.080
was diagnosed with cancer. And and I said, "Mom,  now you will pay me attention or you train or you

00:21:54.080 --> 00:22:02.640
die. So, shoes, okay? Or you lose your son because  I will get mad." And and now and she she started

00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:08.800
making training and she got very success because  six fourth she did she was doing the training

00:22:08.800 --> 00:22:15.440
together with the treatment hormonal and chemical  therapy treatment and the tumors they disappear

00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:21.680
which were on their monitor system so lymphatic  system and in fact but but taking talking about

00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:28.320
this test like here she's giving her best and I  can put the encoder and I can quantify velocity

00:22:28.320 --> 00:22:34.720
which is not power but okay it's a good driver of  power and I can see how good she is and this test

00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:40.080
fores is better than the other one. If people  are not able to do the the seat to jump test,

00:22:40.080 --> 00:22:45.360
they can move back and they can just do the seat  to stand. Now it's a suitable and there is no

00:22:45.360 --> 00:22:51.200
ceiling limit and probably people uh performance  is approaching more more or less their maximal

00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:56.320
limits physiological limits. But for instance,  let's suppose you want to make because right

00:22:56.320 --> 00:23:01.600
now I'm working with other colleagues. We have  a big network and we are finding trying to find

00:23:01.600 --> 00:23:07.680
solutions for large scale solutions and one  approach was developed by my friend in Chile

00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:15.680
Carlos Montisenos Montenos Cruz that um that that  was just saying okay let's see how many people

00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:22.400
can jump or not in the world you know and if you  move forward one slide he I I can show you a very

00:23:22.400 --> 00:23:28.800
nice data so he just quantify he did a binary  test about the ability to jump unilaterally on

00:23:28.800 --> 00:23:36.000
the non-dominant limb for three times like three  consecutive jumps and he he noted in a a Chilean

00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:42.880
sample that uh starting more or less at 50 their  50s people start losing the ability to jump on

00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:48.400
one leg like for instance when you reach 75 just  half of the sample is able to jump and when you

00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:53.760
just compare like what is the difference between  people are able to jump and not able to jump so

00:23:53.760 --> 00:23:59.440
Carlos is now proposing that every doctor should  ask their patients are you able to jump? Okay.

00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:05.520
And what he founds I I can show you the data  on the next slide that um people that were not

00:24:05.520 --> 00:24:13.360
able to jump they had like with less 60 years  they have less strength less knensor strength

00:24:13.360 --> 00:24:19.360
less power with sit to stand. And when we look to  people that was older than 60 years like you can

00:24:19.360 --> 00:24:25.280
go move the the slide the same. So every time you  are not able to jump overall your physical fitness

00:24:25.280 --> 00:24:30.720
is already bad. So you have a very simple test  just to identify people that really need help.

00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:37.280
Okay? Because otherwise theorically they will die  sooner and they will have until there less quality

00:24:37.280 --> 00:24:42.640
of life. So there's a plenty of approaches and of  course you can use gold standard equipment like

00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:49.600
Keiser because Keiser is I must say I don't have a  quiser a Keiser equipment until now but uh Keiser

00:24:49.600 --> 00:24:55.680
it's probably the brand that most promotes power  by their equipment. So and the equipment has very

00:24:55.680 --> 00:25:01.600
good quality and that's why very renowned  brands like and clubs like Barcelona like

00:25:01.600 --> 00:25:07.280
Palmas worldwide they they have their equipment  because it's it's good if they are buying it's

00:25:07.280 --> 00:25:12.080
because it's good okay so it looks like you have  a number of assessments right and that is a very

00:25:12.080 --> 00:25:16.720
simple question right can you jump can you land  and then from there you have your sit to stand

00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:22.400
which you mentioned you also mentioned you know a  progression of that would be a sit to jump so you

00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:25.680
know I'm curious to know more about the other  progressions that you have and what would be

00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:29.520
appropriate for different ages. Can you expand  on the different assessments that are available

00:25:29.520 --> 00:25:35.520
for people for better understanding powerpia  or power? Yeah, this is complex because when

00:25:35.520 --> 00:25:40.080
you have a lot of tests and their progressions and  aggressions so it depends of the type. So it's we

00:25:40.080 --> 00:25:44.000
are talking about champions but there are humans  that don't have legs you know and some we have

00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:49.360
to have solutions for them. Another issue about  the testing is to have a large scale and feasible

00:25:49.360 --> 00:25:56.640
approach. Right now myself and my my colleagues my  network we have been working since from a while on

00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:02.960
to identifying a large scale solution to SAS power  opinion and I will present that on the conference.

00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:08.880
So I have a solution a proposal at least reser  reserve your seat and tune in online and you can

00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:18.000
find yeah I can I can let you say like this people  we like the solution. So as we look at powerpina

00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:24.880
and power on a grander scale, what are some of  maybe the mistakes or misconceptions when training

00:26:24.880 --> 00:26:30.560
power in aging populations? One of the concerns  is like the safety you know we have published

00:26:30.560 --> 00:26:37.120
like years ago with uh I with some colleagues me  my colleagues I was not the first author. This was

00:26:37.120 --> 00:26:44.960
a invitation from a Brazilian group leaded by pro  professor hon which uh we wrote um and a letter

00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:52.480
to to sports medicine showing evidence that there  it is safe because when we search the studies that

00:26:52.480 --> 00:26:59.280
have examined power training and they did some  training with with individuals the incidence or

00:26:59.280 --> 00:27:06.080
at least the reporting of uh adverse consequence  was really very very low. Which means that when

00:27:06.080 --> 00:27:13.440
you do supervised exercise, you you can put this  sentence in your head. Power training is safe

00:27:13.440 --> 00:27:19.680
when supervised and done with the professionals.  Of course, if you don't know to do the exercise

00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:25.040
and you just do it, you go fast and you don't  warm up and a lot of stuff, you can get hurt,

00:27:25.040 --> 00:27:31.520
of course. But I think the first message to pass  all over communities is if you are with trained

00:27:31.520 --> 00:27:37.040
professionals, power training is safe. And how  do you think as an industry we start shifting

00:27:37.040 --> 00:27:43.360
more towards a power penentric a power centric  focus over strength for a large scale population

00:27:43.360 --> 00:27:47.920
right I'm not talking about specific athletes or  or people who specifically need just strength but

00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:53.840
just in general what do you think will help us  value that more as a community in performance

00:27:53.840 --> 00:28:00.960
okay three main drivers not the only but three  main drivers first political they must understand

00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:07.040
what is the real impact of exercise overall on  health of humans because when they understand

00:28:07.040 --> 00:28:13.600
they will spend less money on disease if people  are really doing exercise probably they will pay

00:28:13.600 --> 00:28:19.360
attention. The second is the medical community.  The last consensus on sarcopenia the consensus

00:28:19.360 --> 00:28:24.160
which main was mainly composed by medical  doctors they excluded power from the concept.

00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:31.840
So they they don't understand the the power of  power let's say the power of power you know like

00:28:31.840 --> 00:28:37.600
um how much power feels and the meaning  of of of this variable and the third is

00:28:37.600 --> 00:28:43.840
um the media we have to put this on the newspapers  and journalists have to talk about this because

00:28:43.840 --> 00:28:49.840
they are also not aware like uh I gave two weeks  ago an interview and which will come on the news

00:28:49.840 --> 00:28:55.600
on the next week to talk about opinion sarcopenia  and that stuff and I think most interviews like

00:28:55.600 --> 00:29:03.280
this have to be on on the TV. Nowadays, we see  things on the TV that don't do not have so much

00:29:03.280 --> 00:29:08.640
value and I think this has value. So, we have to  put very strategically on media. Yeah. You know,

00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:13.520
people talk about not wanting to lose their  balance as they age. They talk about wanting to

00:29:13.520 --> 00:29:19.120
avoid falls. I think you even see things on TV and  advertising to help people avoid that. And so much

00:29:19.120 --> 00:29:24.000
of it is tied to strength, right? this idea of I  have to keep my strength or my muscle mass. But,

00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:28.320
you know, I would say very rarely do I hear  people say, well, I have to keep up my power,

00:29:28.320 --> 00:29:33.200
right? I have to keep my power reserve. So, it's  interesting because I think certainly out in the

00:29:33.200 --> 00:29:37.200
community that is what we hear is we have to keep  strength, strength, strength. And none of us are

00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:41.360
saying that strength isn't an important factor and  muscle mass is not an important factor. Those are

00:29:41.360 --> 00:29:47.600
obviously very important things, but we've yet to  have this shift into valuing power, right? Yeah.

00:29:47.600 --> 00:29:55.600
Yeah. Uh making analogy. of can people understand  let's say like this if I have just very slow

00:29:55.600 --> 00:30:02.800
soldiers I cannot win the war if I have slow slow  soldiers but strong with a good general I have

00:30:02.800 --> 00:30:09.680
some some some chance of winning the war if I have  a good general with very fast soldiers I can win

00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:16.240
the war yeah simple way to think about that I like  it um so in thinking about now all the research

00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:21.680
that you've seen all the time you've put into this  any just general General recommendations. I know

00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:25.680
you said it's got to be safe, right? Is thereation  about how somebody should approach training for

00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:32.960
power? Yeah, it's like uh yeah, I would say like  this. Sleep well, eat well, have smallest level of

00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:38.800
stress and don't forget to train. So, what you're  saying is these lifestyle behavioral factors have

00:30:38.800 --> 00:30:44.240
a ton of value in this entire equation. Yeah.  Because I can say the foot like the feet are very

00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:50.400
important, but if I don't have hips, I don't have  feet. you know like it's always a multicomponent

00:30:50.400 --> 00:30:58.400
but because power let's say uh to train as I said  before you can have good levels of power you can

00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:03.520
have full in your tank if you sleep well if you  don't sleep and if you train very well you don't

00:31:03.520 --> 00:31:11.920
get full you know so so it's all a good component  and let's now promoting Keiser I'm being invited

00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:17.920
I can promote Keiser Keiser helps you to know the  level of food you have in a tank and the size of

00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:23.280
your tank that says. So people have to know their  numbers. They they cannot know the numbers let's

00:31:23.280 --> 00:31:29.680
say but they have to they have a conscious  of their body how it is and how to manage you

00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:37.520
know the four cornstones are always this sleep  stress and train. Has your group developed any

00:31:37.520 --> 00:31:42.160
recommendations or leaned into anything related  to upper body power? Right. Someone who maybe has

00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:46.960
a limitation of the lower limbs. What tests have  you been looking at from an upper body perspective

00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:51.920
to maybe give somebody indication of power or  powerpia? Yeah, very simple. You can make uh

00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:59.760
like in fact a very recent um research made from  a Brazilian group which was leaded by claou has

00:31:59.760 --> 00:32:07.840
shown that the upper body pull like had a much  stronger correlation um association with death.

00:32:07.840 --> 00:32:15.600
Okay. So it was a longitudinal study then strength  the strength of your hands and your body mass. So

00:32:15.600 --> 00:32:21.280
let's say like if you upper body is a particular  region of your body compared to lower limp in

00:32:21.280 --> 00:32:28.160
which you have much more motor units of bigger  motor units which means that probably biological

00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:34.160
the region that you will lose more biological  power because you you can mask that with with

00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:41.120
training is your upper body. Okay. uh but we don't  know in fact I h we have we had published a paper

00:32:41.120 --> 00:32:48.160
in British journal to to to call for attention for  this because there is not so much research showing

00:32:48.160 --> 00:32:54.640
showing that uh that which is the bad body region  not to detect which is the region which is has

00:32:54.640 --> 00:33:00.800
more meaning functional meaning but has more  biological meaning uh regarding power levels

00:33:00.800 --> 00:33:06.880
and maybe could be the the upper limb because  master athletes who who don't stop training,

00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:12.240
they eat well, they they sleep well, they have  good levels of stress, not too much, not too low.

00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:18.080
They they lose more power in their upper body  tasks than the lower lobby, the lower body uh

00:33:18.080 --> 00:33:26.560
uh tasks. So maybe depending of your physical  activity or lifespan pattern, the region could be

00:33:26.560 --> 00:33:33.280
different. If you could go for the last slide, the  19 I think the 19 like this is what happens like

00:33:33.280 --> 00:33:38.960
when you are healthy, when you get good lifestyle,  you train, you eat, you you are on the top and you

00:33:38.960 --> 00:33:44.400
will lose with age of course, but you can still  be on the top. Let's look to Cristiano, okay,

00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:49.600
Portuguese footballer. He takes care of himself.  He sleeps well, he eats well, and probably he

00:33:49.600 --> 00:33:54.800
doesn't train so much like others, okay? Because  he has to manage, okay? And he's on the top. He's

00:33:54.800 --> 00:34:00.320
on the top. His tank has decreased a little bit.  Not too much, but decreased a little bit, but not

00:34:00.320 --> 00:34:06.000
too much. Again, probably he's the the footballer,  the most older footballer with the less poropinia,

00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:11.600
you know, because poropinia is athletic concept.  And but if you are not healthy, you are unhealthy,

00:34:11.600 --> 00:34:16.800
you don't eat well, but without disease, at least  diagnosed and you don't feel still you don't feel

00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:23.840
in your body, you will decrease with age your  skeletal muscular motor function with faster rate.

00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:29.920
And if you are with disease you accelerate and the  difference between unhealthy and a disease pattern

00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:35.200
lifestyle let's say it's very close in fact  because the probability you get a disease it's

00:34:35.200 --> 00:34:41.760
much higher the secret is always the same sleep  well eat well good levels of stress not too much

00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:47.520
not less but also the type and don't forget to  train and I think the goal here right would be to

00:34:47.520 --> 00:34:54.000
have this with age stay as high as possible right  have this bar stay up as high as possible and then

00:34:54.000 --> 00:35:00.160
fall off like a cliff. Yeah. So other people can  suffer from our death, not us. Not the people they

00:35:00.160 --> 00:35:05.840
they they died, you know. Right. Right. Have you  started to look into have you started to take any

00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:11.200
of this research and start to look at disease  populations or has this mainly been a focus on

00:35:11.200 --> 00:35:16.560
healthy populations? Yeah. Yeah. We are starting  right now in Portugal a very big project. Let's

00:35:16.560 --> 00:35:23.040
translate the project calls vabella. Let's say  like life is beautiful project you know and we

00:35:23.040 --> 00:35:29.520
are starting doing some some ch some uh programs  with the community to get and we'll also get

00:35:29.520 --> 00:35:36.720
data our focus is to provide their low levels of  parenia so decrease porpia as most as possible and

00:35:36.720 --> 00:35:42.800
uh and we'll also get some data to analyze  and we may publish or not because in Portugal

00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:49.280
we have good food so easy to eat sometimes the  stress is also okay if you man you manage Okay,

00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:54.240
the sleep. Yeah, you have to choose. You don't you  don't you don't do the work and you go to sleep,

00:35:54.240 --> 00:35:58.880
but not training too much. Okay. Yet. So, the  job is to put them to train because the rest

00:35:58.880 --> 00:36:05.600
they are doing already. And in fact, Portugal has  a longevity still considerable. So, the Portuguese

00:36:05.600 --> 00:36:08.960
people in general, they live more than for  instance Americans. I was going to say you should

00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:14.240
come bring that research over to uh America. Yeah.  Waiting for the invitation. Cool. I mean, that's

00:36:14.240 --> 00:36:19.040
it's very fascinating. Is there is there anything  that we have not discussed about power pina or

00:36:19.040 --> 00:36:23.600
about anything that you would like to hit on?  Everything we did not discuss. That's what we were

00:36:23.600 --> 00:36:29.200
organizing this conference to discuss more and  we are calling all the researchers worldwide to

00:36:29.200 --> 00:36:35.440
participate and now they have no excuses because  they can either participate in local they can join

00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:41.840
the codfish the sea the surf and all that that  good stuff and just have a good contribution for

00:36:41.840 --> 00:36:47.600
the the conference but they can also participate  virtually they can submit their ops right abstract

00:36:47.600 --> 00:36:54.880
will be indexed by frontiers in aging with um  Quart one journal. So very nice journal and give a

00:36:54.880 --> 00:37:01.200
contribution for discussion and to find solutions  for the world the world needs. It's fantastic that

00:37:01.200 --> 00:37:06.400
this that this event is being put on and I'm sure  with every single year this will continue to grow

00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:13.680
and grow and grow and really be an impactful event  for the world. This this event which people can

00:37:13.680 --> 00:37:20.640
watch on powerpin.com is being sponsored by Keiser  and we really thank to Keiser. It it has giving a

00:37:20.640 --> 00:37:27.280
good help to to organize but we what we need is  registrations from people here to participate

00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:32.480
because the benefit of the event is comes  from people that are here and they give their

00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:37.920
contribution. Uh if they give the contribution  everyone will love probably will bring the most

00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:44.240
powerful man living in hurt. He's he lives in  Portugal and we will test his power levels with

00:37:44.240 --> 00:37:50.800
the Keiser equipment. He's 54 years and for Ghage  I have no doubt that is the most powerful man in

00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:57.440
earth's his origin is from Cape Ver which has  people living until 20 120 years which is very

00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:02.960
nice locally in the world the the women not  the men because the men they just take risky

00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:08.400
risky behavior so they don't live to too long  they drink they do a lot bad stuff let's say so

00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:15.280
they die sooner but the women know the women they  are smart they they live longer they live 110 115

00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:21.440
They're way smarter. Yeah, man are dumb. Yeah, I I  have no doubts. Like we did a a study on football

00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:26.880
here. We we we study all the football teams in in  in Portugal together with the football federation.

00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:33.120
And I found a very interesting thing like we asked  to the to the people in charge of the recovery

00:38:33.120 --> 00:38:37.840
after the games. What was the the recover method  that they they gave most valable they consider

00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:44.080
more important and what was the method that they  they classify as import as important like like

00:38:44.080 --> 00:38:49.120
what you use more what is more important let's  say like this we and we we did analysis for

00:38:49.120 --> 00:38:55.760
uh women teams and men teams uh men the most  important thing to recover is to sleep okay

00:38:55.760 --> 00:39:02.400
what you do more I eat so there was no correlation  what the men say that was important and what they

00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:08.800
do the women the correlation was almost 0.97. So  it was a line. Men say it's important to sleep,

00:39:08.800 --> 00:39:13.600
I sleep. Second thing is important to eat, I eat.  So they do the this and this progression and they

00:39:13.600 --> 00:39:20.480
are right. So women are much clever than men. And  the future is for women of course. Okay. Any any

00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:25.200
other resources, social media websites that you  want to share? I'm happy to put this in the notes,

00:39:25.200 --> 00:39:29.680
but maybe for someone listening right now the  time. I think like right now the conference we

00:39:29.680 --> 00:39:35.120
are on the second edition pinput.com but we  will advance sooner with uh more information

00:39:35.120 --> 00:39:41.760
on the website because uh people can maybe can  stay to to connect through that website we will

00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:48.000
keep the website just to put the the information  there. So uh all the news good and the bad news

00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:54.080
we'll put there and the next good news it's the  conference two and three of July 2026 either in

00:39:54.080 --> 00:39:59.680
local or online. Okay Sandro thank you so much.  If I can recap all of this, eat well, sleep well,

00:39:59.680 --> 00:40:03.520
don't be stressed, and if you can train a little  bit, train a little bit on top of that. No, no,

00:40:03.520 --> 00:40:08.000
you should have stress a little bit. Okay. Not  much. Just a little bit. Yeah. Otherwise, if you

00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:12.880
don't have stress, you get depressed. Okay. No  power. And if you're going to have some codfish,

00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:17.520
go to Portugal and join the cod there because it's  the best in the world. Yeah. To capture the best

00:40:17.520 --> 00:40:23.280
place is new land in in Canada, Charles Finland.  You capture them, you bring on the plane, you take

00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:28.000
it to cod fishing, we cook it for you. Okay. If  there's one takeaway about today's conversation,

00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:31.840
it's that Sandro, thank you so much for taking the  time to join me on the Keiser Human Performance

00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:38.080
podcast. We totally appreciate all the hard  work that you and your colleagues have dedicated

00:40:38.080 --> 00:40:42.560
uh to PowerPIA and uncovering the importance  of this. I'm really excited to see where this

00:40:42.560 --> 00:40:47.360
goes and how big this conference will get  and and really how the community begins to

00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:51.200
accept and really appreciate everything  there is to know about Power Penis. So,

00:40:51.200 --> 00:40:54.880
thank you so much. I can't wait to talk again  soon. Can't wait to hear how the conference

00:40:54.880 --> 00:41:01.120
goes and and for anyone listening again conference  you can do it virtually notes will be include the

00:41:01.120 --> 00:41:05.520
link to register make sure you do yourself a favor  and do that so Sandra thank you so much we really

00:41:05.520 --> 00:41:10.720
appreciate it no thank you and thank you Keiser  for the opportunity also thank you for helping in

00:41:10.720 --> 00:41:15.760
spreading the word yes yes absolutely all right my  friend thank you and we'll talk soon bye-bye bye