Chris Woolley: From Rugby to Ice - Bobsleigh Performance

In this episode, we’re joined by Chris Woolley, a former rugby player turned brakeman with an extraordinary journey in bobsleigh. Chris has led Great Britain’s bobsleigh team through two Olympic cycles and now serves as the National Trainer for Swiss Sliding, where he continues to break new ground in performance science. He’s an expert in speed-strength training, athlete profiling, and development, blending data-driven precision with the art of coaching to unlock an athlete’s full potential.

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Welcome to the Keiser Human Performance Podcast.

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The goal of this podcast. is to educate and inspire you to make the most of your

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journey in health and

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performance. Each episode will provide an in-depth discussion on a specific topic related to human performance.

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If you're a growth-minded

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individual seeking knowledge and better solutions,

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this

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podcast is for you. We're glad you're listening in, and we're excited to learn alongside

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you. Welcome back to the Keiser Human Performance. Podcast.

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I'm Gabe German, and today we are joined by Chris

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Woolley. A former rugby player

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turned brakeman, Chris has had an amazing journey through bobsleigh. From leading Great Britain's bobsleigh team through two Olympic cycles

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to his current role as national trainer for

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Swiss Sliding, Chris is an expert in- performance. science.

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In

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this episode, Chris takes us behind the

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scenes, from the icy tracks of bobsleigh to the cutting edge

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of athlete performance. We'll explore how he blends data-driven precision with the art of coaching to unlock potential and literally

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push the limits. Chris has had some incredible stories and

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insights to share. If you' wanna follow his journey, check out his Instagram @woolley_man.

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We're glad you're here with us,

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so let's dive in. All right, Chris, thank you. for taking the time out of your day to be here

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on the Keiser Human Performance Podcast.

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How are you' doing

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today? Very well, thank you. Very well. Awesome. Well, I understand you're a traveling man. I appreciate you. making the

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time for us, so if you're willing to share, tell us how your

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recent travels have been.

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Uh, pretty good. I mean, for once you catch me in the UK. I've not been back in the UK

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since

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May. Um, I spend most of my time living and working out in Switzerland, and

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the last three to four to five weeks we've been on the road since season start.

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Um,

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now even longer, seven

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weeks. Had a couple of weeks in Norway,

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um,

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week in Germany, week back in Switzerland, another week in... Two weeks in Germany for

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race. Then the week before last, we were in Latvia for the last World Cup of

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this year before a

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very short break back to Switzerland

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on Tuesday. We have a short testing period, and then back to Germany on the 29th,

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30th

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to start the second leg of the World Cup campaign.

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So yeah, taking a short pause before a very busy

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January. All right. So I have to ask the hard-hitting questions now. What's the culinary experience been

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like throughout all these countries?

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Culinary experience?

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Oh, wow.

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Um, yeah, that's, that's quite a, that's quite a scoping question.

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Uh,

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uh, a

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lot of pork. Uh, a lot of the German-speaking countries, their pork is their, their favorite

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meat usually. Um,

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but it's, it's hard

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to tie it down. We, like anything or any sport that's on tour,

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the, um...

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It's not as salubrious as it might look on the outside. A lot of hotels,

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a lot of, a lot of buffets and,

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um,

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in general, you've, you

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hit a, hit quite a standard on that.

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But they,

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uh, the Scandinavian food is not particularly something to

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talk about.

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Uh, neither

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is the German, neither is- Neither is the Latvian, quite frankly. All right. You know what? So we'll talk about

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bobsleigh instead. Yeah, let's do it instead. There's definitely

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a, definitely a, definitely a more variable world talking about bobsleigh- ... than my culinary experience of the world.

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Awesome.

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Well, precious time, so again, thanks for being here today.

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Um, your journey into bobsleigh really seems serendipitous and, but also, like, methodical at the same time.

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So can you walk us through how a

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rugby player and an academic found himself pushing, you know, the

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sleigh on ice? Inexplicably,

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yes. Um, I think meth- methodical

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would be... It, it sounds methodical when I write it out, but, uh, thinking back on it, it probably

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isn't at all. It's more like an opportunity presented itself in a period when

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other doors were closing.

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Um,

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uh, I think if I've, I've, I've written pieces about this before, and you'd probably

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read that yourself, but,

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um, like a, like a majority of people, I kind of stumbled across bobsleigh.

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Um,

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uh, and I, I, I was, at the time, I was studying

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my MSC. I was just nursing

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a, uh, a, a slapped area in my left shoulder, which is still pretty bad these days.

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Uh, anyone who knows me can tell you that.

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Uh, and it was just one of those, there was a, a requirement during my MSC to write about

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or write specifically for an athlete in a particular sport. And two of our main lecturers, one was

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a weightlifting coach and

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one was a rugby coach, so they were outlawed subjects to write about. There's a lot of literature about both

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of those sports, uh, and the practices that go involved in them.

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And I just had something in the back of my mind

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about, about bobsleigh. At this point, my knowledge of the sport was probably similar to what we spoke just

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off, off air about then. It's,

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uh, a Jamaican team,

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1988,

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uh, in Cool Runnings. That, that's most people's foundation

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knowledge. I mean, mine, as guilty as I was, it's the same at that point

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in time. Uh, but I started to look into the, um,

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the, the, the, the deeper side of the athletic performance of it, and that's when I got more interested and

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I got myself engaged as an athlete first and foremost with a, with

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a view to, uh, doing some work

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with the teams. Um, but at that point in time, I could still,

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still hold my own as

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an athlete. Knackered shoulder, but I was still quick and relatively

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powerful.

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Um, so that combination between getting squeezed out of rugby, uh, having to do

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something

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without

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having to put my shoulder under a lot of danger or a lot of,

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uh, stress again, and an outlet for doing something

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powerful, and that was the one that came

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across. Awesome. So as I understand, you were a brakeman, correct?

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Yeah. Okay, cool. So for people listening who aren't exactly sure what that is, you know, maybe they've

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seen Cool Runnings before,

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um, but, but still don't know what a brakeman, is and what a brakeman is responsible for, can

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you provide some detail

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to help orient us? Of course, yeah. So a brakeman is effective, uh, it's ... Another word would be a

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push athlete. I think, uh, actually America would refer to them as push athletes rather

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than brakemen. It's just the, and I guess in a, in a more modern

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world, brakeman doesn't quite fit the mold when we have brake women as well. Um, so push athletes or, uh,

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I, I work with the Swiss team now, they would call an anschieber or an anschieberin is

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the female version of that.

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Um,

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and y- you're effectively

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mostly,

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I'll say mostly responsible

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for the, for the start performance, because

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there's always, uh, in the men's disciplines, there's always more than, uh, two, two or more people. In the ladies

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now, in the last four or five years, there's been an introduction of something called monobob,

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so therefore the pilots stand completely

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alone, and that makes them also a brakeman, if you like.

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Uh,

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and the, the overriding factor really

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is that everybody's

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a brakeman, push

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athlete, until

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they sit down. Pilots only become pilots once they get their,

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get their

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ass into the seat.

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Awesome. Yeah. Thanks for that. And, and

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I,

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you know, love this snippet from your article, The Beauty of Bobsleigh, which we'll reference definitely in the

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notes, about your early experiences in this sport, and I'm gonna read a little snippet and then

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ask- Okay ... you to elaborate

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on it. So

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you said, "Get told to be better

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without any real instruction as to how it might happen. Listen to various boasts about the magnitude

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of people's power claims.

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Be told

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limitless amount, amounts of myths about speed, velocity, G-forces, crashes.

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Learn just how significant .03 seconds is.

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Do

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another push trial. Next thing you know, you're wearing a helmet, a pair of spikes, and a ridiculous onesie at

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the top of the track made out

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a sheet of ice, wondering how you've gotten yourself here."

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And I

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left the, you know-

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Yes, the expletive, yeah, yeah ... couple words out

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of there. Yeah. Um,

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so can you paint us a picture of that first physical performance trial day for

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you, from what you remember? Yeah. I mean, that, that's, that's actually quite a few months after doing the first

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trial. So the ph- the physical performance trial took place at Bath University. Um, standard practice, uh,

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then and probably is now in most, uh,

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most other nations. Uh, some variety of a speed test.

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Uh, depending on whether you get to a certain standard, then you're taken to the push track

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and,

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quite frankly,

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given a push trolley and told to go for it. And depending on what your nature or background is, you'll

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do that or you'll not. It's,

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it's a bit

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scary, kind of self-preservation tells you not to push this thing over the hill, because that's quite scary, it's quite

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dangerous.

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But like, uh,

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like anything,

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the, the harder you go at it, the safer

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it is.

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Uh, years on now I will reference the first time I went to a velodrome

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as well. When you're cycling around a velodrome and you see the embankment, that wall is 42

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degrees, I think, if

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I remember correctly. Your natural inclination is, "That's a wall,

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I need to slow down." Actually, you need to

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speed up. Physics is on your side.

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Um, and it's the same with pushing a sled over the hill. If you hesitate, the sled will anyway go

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down and just drag you with

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it. So you might as well commit to it.

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Um, so that, that's the push, push element, but the going down the actual,

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the actual

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track,

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um, suddenly you've done pushing in a, we would call a trolley, I guess, like a push trolley. Looks

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like a frame of a bobsleigh. without the, without the aerodynamic on. That's a pretty normal thing

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to learn to push on. Next thing you know, you've got a real bob.

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You're at the top

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of a track. You can now see the somewhere 14, 15 to maybe 18 curves until

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the finish. Your pilot will come and tell you, "Okay, we're going to,

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our,

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with, our, our run, our run will be in 15, 20 minutes.

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Uh, the sled

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is ready. You're gonna be warm and, and you're good to go."

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Suddenly you're thinking, "I've never been in one of these things. I should

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sit myself in, find out how I have to

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grip."

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Um, what goes on when I do

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get in? Do, do I say something? Do I have to

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do anything else? And this is the other part of being a brakeman. No, you push

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it, then you sit down, you hold on until someone shouts,

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"Brake," and then you pull the

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brakes. And

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it really is, the point between sitting down and pulling the brakes,

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you are just ballast, quite frankly. And that first run

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down, you can only, I can only describe as a washing machine. I, I, I'd been relatively diligent-

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... I thought.

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I, I, I looked at a track map. I thought, "Okay, I know which way this curve goes.

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I know which way that... There's a straight here. I should

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remember that." After two seconds, you're just thinking, "What is happening? What, what on earth is happening to my body?

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Why is

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my ass pointing up, my head pointing down? Why is that now changed?"

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No idea to understand where you were at all. Um,

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but then the magical command of brake comes in. You put your head up, you realize you're going uphill,

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pull

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the brakes,

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stop. That was awesome.

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Let's go again.

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And, and just, and that's, that's how, that's how you get hooked.

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I, I can't imagine. I, I don't think, unless you do it, I don't think you can ever truly appreciate

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what- No ... that experience is like. There's no way, right? Like No.

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I mean, you've been to a theme park, you've been to a rollercoaster, whatever,

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but that thing's on rails. It's a, it's a predetermined plan of taking you through this track

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that you can see everything.

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The biggest thing with this is now you get in the back, your head is down.

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You have no visual input other than the fact you can s- just

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about see the, the ice rushing. There's a small gap in the bottom of the sled where the, where the

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brake goes through. You can see the ice going past and getting quicker and

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quicker, and the sound of the wind getting quicker

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and quicker. And then suddenly the sled starts bobbling around all over the place as you hit these curves.

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And of course, you have no control. Your head's down. You, complete faith is in the pilot to do what

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you've entrusted

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them to do. Uh, and that's, uh, quite a big

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point is that you do your job and they do theirs.

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And yeah,

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faith is quite a big part of this. Wow. Yeah. I'm just trying to kind of let that all

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settle in here for a second. I'm trying to put myself, um, in that sleigh, thinking about that. So

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from when you first started to your later experiences

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as a competitive

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athlete, what is actually going on in your head?Like, in these later moments when you're a more well-seasoned veteran

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in terms of the bobsleigh and the brakeman, like, what are you actually thinking about throughout this entire

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track? Throughout the

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entire track, mo- pure- purely landmarks, really. Mm-hmm. So after you're gonna develop the... After you kind of normalize

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the going down the track element. Right. Now, some

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tracks are more, more dangerous, more tricky than

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others. But as a brakeman, from my perspective,

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if you can only... The only thing I can influence is what happens between the start block and when I

00:12:35.860 --> 00:12:38.280
sit down. Mm-hmm. That's the only thing I've got any control

00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:38.540
over.

00:12:39.080 --> 00:12:41.300
So that's my 99%

00:12:41.380 --> 00:12:48.060
focus. After that point is just you, you find landmarks to understand where you are in the track

00:12:48.100 --> 00:12:52.800
as to... A- and you start to understand what a good run feels like, what a,

00:12:53.380 --> 00:12:57.009
a less than optimal run feels like. And you're able to then give feedback to your pilot as well, how

00:12:57.040 --> 00:12:57.140
it

00:12:57.180 --> 00:13:01.380
felt in the back, uh, 'cause that can become quite a, um, quite a good relationship

00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:03.020
as well. On a performance day, on

00:13:03.060 --> 00:13:07.680
a real race day, for the majority of the time, you're listening to your heart rate and counting your breaths

00:13:07.740 --> 00:13:08.980
because you've just shoved this

00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:09.340
thing

00:13:10.120 --> 00:13:15.480
so hard, and now you've sat down. You've got such an oxygen debt, your heart is pumping, you're full of

00:13:15.520 --> 00:13:18.080
adrenaline. By the time you've kind of come to terms

00:13:18.100 --> 00:13:22.820
with that, you're finished. It's amazing, though, because the first few steps really

00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:28.620
determines the outcome, right? 15- So there's this long process down the entire thing, yet if you know you maybe

00:13:28.660 --> 00:13:32.420
had a bad push to start, you're like, "Oh, this- That's it ... trial's kinda screwed."

00:13:32.970 --> 00:13:33.980
Yeah. That's it. You might as well get out and do it

00:13:34.020 --> 00:13:39.000
again, so. Um, that- that's, that's the point you mentioned before about the, the significance of three-hundredths of a

00:13:39.080 --> 00:13:43.100
second. There's a, it's a bit of a rule of thumb, but in general, whatever

00:13:43.180 --> 00:13:48.500
you gain or lose at the top, you can multiply by three at the bottom. In, as a, a massive

00:13:48.560 --> 00:13:49.300
generalization.

00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:54.020
But, uh, you, you never normally catch up more

00:13:54.100 --> 00:13:58.040
time or lose more time than you gain or, or lost on the start.

00:13:58.880 --> 00:13:59.179
Mm-hmm.

00:14:00.100 --> 00:14:03.020
So a few times in your article, too, you mention this clash

00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:09.080
of the status quo and these dogmas that existed in bobsleigh versus these truths of science. and

00:14:09.140 --> 00:14:10.960
physics and human performance. that you had from

00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:17.060
your academic background. Yeah. Can you expand on this clash and really what it was like balancing what it's

00:14:17.100 --> 00:14:22.160
like to be a newer athlete and, and face in this sport with your academic background

00:14:22.180 --> 00:14:27.980
and performance? Uh, yeah. That's, that's an interesting one because it, it's a clash that st- you still find quite

00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:28.040
a

00:14:28.060 --> 00:14:30.000
bit of it today. Um, there's some very

00:14:30.940 --> 00:14:34.039
convenient truths that rock around in the sport about things which,

00:14:34.880 --> 00:14:39.980
uh, don't necessarily like being challenged. Um, uh, one a good, one good example is some research

00:14:40.020 --> 00:14:41.130
I've done in the last few years

00:14:41.760 --> 00:14:44.340
actually about just how slow the sled is traveling.

00:14:44.980 --> 00:14:45.220
Um,

00:14:45.920 --> 00:14:46.020
so

00:14:46.060 --> 00:14:49.969
we, we' have, um, telemetry boxes in the front of the sleds when we race on World

00:14:50.080 --> 00:14:54.640
Cup, and they measure extremely accurately, uh, I think somewhere around 465,

00:14:54.940 --> 00:14:55.280
500

00:14:55.320 --> 00:14:59.220
hertz. Uh, and they will measure acceleration and velocity

00:14:59.680 --> 00:15:00.300
through the whole,

00:15:00.940 --> 00:15:01.040
through

00:15:01.050 --> 00:15:06.220
the whole movement. And I was able to track all performances of all sleds

00:15:06.640 --> 00:15:07.100
against

00:15:07.140 --> 00:15:09.000
speed, velocity profiling over

00:15:09.020 --> 00:15:16.580
the same distances, and the sled is just going unbelievably slowly. It feels like it's going fast because it's a

00:15:16.620 --> 00:15:21.940
lot of effort. The limb speed is very high. Uh, the end speed is very high because we push a

00:15:21.980 --> 00:15:26.380
sled down a hill. But actually, that process of acceleration, the,

00:15:26.520 --> 00:15:34.080
um, the displacement of the actual sled is ridiculously slow. It just eventually crosses over that and goes into a,

00:15:34.100 --> 00:15:37.210
crosses over that of a normal acceleration of a human and goes into super maximal.

00:15:38.200 --> 00:15:42.040
And that's the, that's the kind of nuanced part. But that's, that's definitely something,

00:15:43.020 --> 00:15:43.200
uh,

00:15:43.300 --> 00:15:46.960
I've struggled with getting people to buy in, the fact that it is actually

00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:52.100
that slow. But coming into the sport

00:15:52.120 --> 00:16:01.040
as a newbie and having ideas that what's going on might not be optimal is not always taken, uh, as

00:16:01.060 --> 00:16:05.100
well as you'd like, like to hope it would be. But ir- irrefutable evidence is refuted,

00:16:05.140 --> 00:16:09.940
quite frankly. Yeah. Awesome. I'm, I'm really excited to in a little bit discuss more about some of the research

00:16:09.980 --> 00:16:11.990
side of things that you've done over the last few years. Yeah, happy to.

00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:14.040
For sure, that'd be awesome. Um, but before

00:16:14.080 --> 00:16:14.600
we do that,

00:16:15.400 --> 00:16:19.990
tell me then, what was this impact of then being also, like, a rugby athlete coming in from another

00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:27.259
sport who had your own views of, of a different sport and maybe performance and how that, and how you

00:16:27.379 --> 00:16:33.060
use those experiences in a positive way to kind of stand out or, or improve as an athlete

00:16:33.100 --> 00:16:37.900
pretty quickly? I mean, I think, uh, I might be, maybe I'm an isolated example here,

00:16:38.020 --> 00:16:40.990
but, uh, I think not when I look around the rest of the world.

00:16:41.060 --> 00:16:43.980
But I think rugby's actually a nigh on perfect transfer

00:16:44.060 --> 00:16:44.380
sport

00:16:45.040 --> 00:16:51.160
because the, the standard elements which make you good on a rugby pitch, same like a football, or American football,

00:16:51.280 --> 00:16:53.420
um, you need strength, you need speed,

00:16:53.770 --> 00:16:56.140
um, but you also need to have the ability to take

00:16:56.260 --> 00:16:58.000
a hit, uh, and that

00:16:58.070 --> 00:17:04.079
kind of get comfortable being uncomfortable. There is nothing comfortable about pushing or riding in a bobsleigh, I can tell

00:17:04.099 --> 00:17:04.140
you

00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:09.079
that right now. It's cold, it's hard, it's fast, it's full of bumps and

00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:13.980
bruises, and it's, it's not gonna change. So it's one of those things you have to accept. And

00:17:14.020 --> 00:17:18.960
if you've got a background where you anyway accept those things, you can take a hit, you can take a

00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:25.770
bruise, you can push through some, some, some beatings, quite frankly, then you're gonna do better at it. The other

00:17:25.819 --> 00:17:27.079
obvious route into the sport

00:17:27.140 --> 00:17:33.800
is through sprinting. Sprinters don't have to do those things as part of their performance, so they're not exposed to

00:17:33.840 --> 00:17:37.040
them. You could also say

00:17:37.700 --> 00:17:39.980
the environment's completely different. Sprinting is generally a

00:17:40.060 --> 00:17:41.920
warm weather sport. Rugby,

00:17:42.080 --> 00:17:44.180
football, bobsleigh, generally cold weather

00:17:44.220 --> 00:17:44.620
sports.

00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:45.660
Generally.

00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:48.240
So getting a, a transfer

00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:53.140
in, but the season runs the same as a rugby season. So for me it was always

00:17:53.180 --> 00:17:56.000
that point in time. Colder weather comes, that's when the performance

00:17:56.060 --> 00:17:58.060
starts. The training happened in the warmer

00:17:58.120 --> 00:17:59.000
weather. And

00:17:59.060 --> 00:18:04.389
that was, uh, for me, that made it m- much more easy to transfer into that particular season of the

00:18:04.420 --> 00:18:05.000
sport. You

00:18:05.060 --> 00:18:07.160
come in from sprinting background, athletics

00:18:07.220 --> 00:18:09.200
background, flip side, reverse.

00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:10.050
You're

00:18:10.140 --> 00:18:14.740
now used to the summer because that's when you perform, and you go away in the winter and you perform

00:18:14.780 --> 00:18:17.040
again. It's not always something that you're

00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:20.030
ready for. Awesome. So you talked a little

00:18:20.070 --> 00:18:21.210
about how

00:18:22.450 --> 00:18:24.030
slow the sled was moving.

00:18:24.610 --> 00:18:24.790
Yeah.

00:18:25.510 --> 00:18:25.930
And

00:18:26.250 --> 00:18:28.990
how people maybe didn't appreciate that aspect of it. Are. there

00:18:29.110 --> 00:18:31.370
other things related to training,

00:18:31.850 --> 00:18:36.070
uh, for bobsleigh and training for performance that you found to be a misconception

00:18:36.110 --> 00:18:36.990
that exists in the sport as

00:18:37.030 --> 00:18:42.000
well? Yeah, and some of it goes around that speed of the sled actually, because if you look at the

00:18:42.110 --> 00:18:42.140
sp-

00:18:42.250 --> 00:18:44.210
if you look at the, the push start

00:18:44.790 --> 00:18:45.270
in general,

00:18:46.510 --> 00:18:47.010
it looks like

00:18:47.050 --> 00:18:50.980
sprinting with a sled. And that's, that, that's completely

00:18:51.029 --> 00:18:56.110
normal. Now, there's some good research in the last eight to nine years particularly, um,

00:18:57.230 --> 00:19:01.190
that shows that the mechanic of pushing the sled versus the mechanic of sprinting are actually

00:19:01.210 --> 00:19:03.010
different, quite significantly

00:19:03.050 --> 00:19:09.290
different. They get more similar over a longer distance, so the speed of pushing and sprinting are more similar, closer

00:19:09.330 --> 00:19:10.190
by 30 meters

00:19:10.690 --> 00:19:10.960
roughly,

00:19:11.710 --> 00:19:15.200
and the mechanics of sprinting and pushing are more similar over a longer distance,

00:19:15.510 --> 00:19:15.970
30 meters

00:19:16.010 --> 00:19:19.950
approximately. But the mechanical work in the lower limb

00:19:20.010 --> 00:19:20.980
joints and

00:19:21.010 --> 00:19:24.030
the mechanic, the actual biomechanic itself,

00:19:24.370 --> 00:19:28.230
particularly in the first 10 to 15 meters, are vastly

00:19:28.250 --> 00:19:31.170
different. And that changes in men's and women's

00:19:31.210 --> 00:19:36.630
disciplines as well, because the relative weight of what you push in men's and women's sports or men's and women's

00:19:36.690 --> 00:19:38.070
bobsleigh is different. So

00:19:38.670 --> 00:19:38.930
to

00:19:39.010 --> 00:19:39.390
put a,

00:19:40.310 --> 00:19:42.030
a, to define it, if

00:19:42.070 --> 00:19:47.330
you like, one, we' have ladies made now, like, monobob and they do two-woman

00:19:47.390 --> 00:19:51.210
bob. So they either push, one girl pushes a sled that's 160

00:19:51.250 --> 00:19:51.650
kilos

00:19:52.430 --> 00:19:55.070
per person, or two ladies push a sled that's

00:19:55.150 --> 00:20:01.350
170. So we're talking about them moving at least 100% their own body mass in. every discipline.

00:20:02.430 --> 00:20:02.970
Take that to the

00:20:03.010 --> 00:20:06.050
men's side of life, the men's and women's two sled is,

00:20:06.090 --> 00:20:09.990
the same weight. You're now talking about two guys who probably weigh roughly

00:20:10.010 --> 00:20:14.340
100 kilos moving 170 between them, around 80%

00:20:14.370 --> 00:20:19.830
body mass, and then four guys moving 210 kilos between them. Now we're talking around 50% to

00:20:20.010 --> 00:20:27.010
60% body mass. So the relative acceleration profiles of each of those disciplines change. Much more relative

00:20:27.050 --> 00:20:28.910
load for the ladies, much

00:20:29.070 --> 00:20:35.250
less for the men. So that mechanic becomes even more exaggerated the more load there is per person.

00:20:36.350 --> 00:20:36.510
And

00:20:37.110 --> 00:20:37.910
the other example

00:20:38.070 --> 00:20:43.890
difference is the sport of sprinting. Same like, uh, I'll give you as another example weightlifting in a minute, but

00:20:43.930 --> 00:20:46.110
the sport of sprinting is outrageous

00:20:46.170 --> 00:20:49.050
acceleration, transitioning to maximal

00:20:49.090 --> 00:20:55.050
speed, and then critically being able to maintain that maximum speed mechanic and output for as long as possible

00:20:55.130 --> 00:20:56.110
over a given distance.

00:20:57.730 --> 00:20:58.070
Pushing,

00:20:59.070 --> 00:21:00.330
we have an outrageous acceleration

00:21:00.430 --> 00:21:04.990
too, but there's at no point you can maintain speed because the sled

00:21:05.030 --> 00:21:08.400
is always faster. If you're not accelerating

00:21:08.430 --> 00:21:10.030
the sled, you're slowing it down.

00:21:11.470 --> 00:21:11.630
So

00:21:11.770 --> 00:21:16.970
the most logical way I can describe it is it's almost closer to a long jumper than it is to

00:21:17.010 --> 00:21:17.030
a

00:21:17.090 --> 00:21:22.030
sprinter. The acceleration profile is always looking for

00:21:22.070 --> 00:21:25.150
the fastest step, not maintaining the fastest step.

00:21:26.530 --> 00:21:28.290
Interesting. In, in the sport,

00:21:28.970 --> 00:21:33.990
it seems that there have been a lot of sprinters that have transitioned into bobsleigh. We had Montell

00:21:34.050 --> 00:21:37.110
Douglas on the podcast. actually. Mm-hmm.

00:21:37.120 --> 00:21:40.370
Um, uh, I, one of my first- I know Montell well. Yeah, one of my first internships

00:21:40.450 --> 00:21:42.190
ever, I had a chance to work with Asya Evans too.

00:21:42.430 --> 00:21:42.670
Um-

00:21:43.010 --> 00:21:45.110
Oh, yeah. She's the best. Yeah. Oh my God,

00:21:45.390 --> 00:21:45.870
incredible.

00:21:46.170 --> 00:21:48.190
Like, pound for pound, one of the best athletes

00:21:48.210 --> 00:21:52.070
I've ever seen. I would agree with that. Uh, unbelievable. And

00:21:53.690 --> 00:21:56.170
have we seen long jumpers transition into this

00:21:56.490 --> 00:21:56.550
at

00:21:56.590 --> 00:22:00.250
all? Not as many. They don't tend to carry as much weight

00:22:00.670 --> 00:22:00.870
or-

00:22:01.350 --> 00:22:06.039
Mm-hmm ... I've, I've met a couple. Horizontal jumpers in my experience have transferred quite well,

00:22:06.610 --> 00:22:08.370
but not that are very famous.

00:22:09.170 --> 00:22:11.130
The only one I can really think of off the top of my head

00:22:11.150 --> 00:22:15.530
is, uh, Tiana Madison. There was Tiana Barthelemy.

00:22:17.830 --> 00:22:19.070
She was la- she was women's

00:22:19.090 --> 00:22:24.070
four by one in London for USA. She was the first leg. But I know she com-

00:22:24.150 --> 00:22:27.670
I know she came to Team USA, but I don't think she competed very much. She was a bit on

00:22:27.690 --> 00:22:29.970
the small side, sadly. The weight factor

00:22:30.010 --> 00:22:31.010
is quite a, quite a

00:22:31.050 --> 00:22:34.190
thing. So as,

00:22:35.010 --> 00:22:37.990
you know, you mentioned that these were some. of the dogmas, they were challenging us, when you'

00:22:38.010 --> 00:22:42.450
were first starting off, and now it seems like the understanding, right? Like any sport, there's been. this evolution of

00:22:42.490 --> 00:22:47.770
understanding and people are constantly- Yes ... pushing the boundaries and trying to understand more and more and more. So

00:22:47.830 --> 00:22:53.150
talk about how, uh, if you're willing here, talk about how the data for you, uh,

00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:58.100
w- you know... I guess my question would be, what are the most important things now

00:22:58.130 --> 00:23:01.170
when you look at this as a whole? Like, do we know

00:23:01.210 --> 00:23:06.010
for certain, "Hey, these are the metrics we have to drive up. Like, if this doesn't exist, it's,

00:23:06.150 --> 00:23:06.190
you

00:23:06.210 --> 00:23:10.230
don't even have a shot"? Uh, it, it's, it's hard to put that into

00:23:10.330 --> 00:23:11.950
one, uh, one

00:23:12.010 --> 00:23:15.890
tidy bundle. Um, but you're, you're absolutely right. I mean, in general, we're looking for

00:23:16.190 --> 00:23:16.770
speed and power.

00:23:17.470 --> 00:23:17.670
Um,

00:23:18.270 --> 00:23:19.830
and I, I... When, when you sent me this as a,

00:23:20.110 --> 00:23:22.990
like, as a, as a, like, prerequisite question, I had a bit of a think about

00:23:23.030 --> 00:23:23.510
it before.

00:23:24.050 --> 00:23:29.050
'Cause there's a way, there's a way I will teach something, and then there's a way I can take individual

00:23:29.170 --> 00:23:34.010
parts out and then coach that. So we're talking about acceleration of an, external

00:23:34.090 --> 00:23:34.490
object.

00:23:35.250 --> 00:23:40.430
Ergo, horizontal force production is the absolute overall overriding

00:23:40.550 --> 00:23:42.990
factor. Now, horizontal force

00:23:43.010 --> 00:23:45.030
production, the way I like

00:23:45.050 --> 00:23:45.990
to teach it with a sled,

00:23:47.370 --> 00:23:49.110
has a, has a systematic

00:23:49.230 --> 00:23:51.060
approach. Vector is the priority,

00:23:51.820 --> 00:23:56.160
thereafter is the rate of the force, thereafter is the frequency of application. You can

00:23:56.270 --> 00:24:01.830
have all three, but you can't have one before the prerequisite. You can't just have frequency if you don't have

00:24:01.870 --> 00:24:02.270
the vector

00:24:02.280 --> 00:24:06.670
and the rate. You can't have the rate if you don't have the vector. Well, you can, but it won't

00:24:06.690 --> 00:24:10.050
be effective. So I, when I teach it, I teach it that way.

00:24:11.010 --> 00:24:11.130
When

00:24:11.150 --> 00:24:11.980
we're talking into,

00:24:13.150 --> 00:24:19.390
um, enhancing an athlete's performance, we can take out those elements, and that vector is a combination between angle and

00:24:19.470 --> 00:24:26.130
force.Uh, the rate is therefore a combination between the amount of overall force and then how quickly

00:24:26.150 --> 00:24:29.080
we get there, and the frequency of application. They're all things we can, we can

00:24:29.170 --> 00:24:33.130
change, or things we can influence with a metric, and they're all things we can measure as well,

00:24:33.210 --> 00:24:35.010
thankfully. Um,

00:24:35.330 --> 00:24:38.190
but it's, it's hard to just put that into one bundle and say,

00:24:38.800 --> 00:24:40.170
"This is the most important thing."

00:24:40.550 --> 00:24:43.030
Uh, and it tends to be a bit more driven...

00:24:43.590 --> 00:24:43.850
Excuse

00:24:43.890 --> 00:24:46.200
me. Uh, the men have slightly different

00:24:46.230 --> 00:24:48.150
parameters or metrics than,

00:24:48.190 --> 00:24:48.710
than the women.

00:24:49.630 --> 00:24:50.990
Um, like

00:24:51.090 --> 00:24:54.850
in general, like I explained before, the amount of force you move around

00:24:55.090 --> 00:24:57.990
per, uh, per person is quite

00:24:58.030 --> 00:24:58.570
significant.

00:24:59.250 --> 00:25:01.040
So therefore, in general,

00:25:01.830 --> 00:25:05.070
the men tend to sit like slightly under that 50% of

00:25:05.490 --> 00:25:06.990
overall power develop- or overall,

00:25:07.090 --> 00:25:14.010
uh, uh, on the, on the, on the force velocity spectrum, and the women should sit slightly above the 50%

00:25:14.050 --> 00:25:15.050
line because of what they're

00:25:15.090 --> 00:25:20.790
moving around. Awesome. So vector, force, and frequency, right? We know that these are three- Vector, force, and frequency. We

00:25:20.870 --> 00:25:24.070
know that these are three important factors, and like you said, you need all three, and you really need

00:25:24.110 --> 00:25:25.269
all three in succession-

00:25:25.970 --> 00:25:26.150
Yes

00:25:26.189 --> 00:25:31.270
... um, in order to be really solid. So I have a couple thoughts now about those.

00:25:31.390 --> 00:25:33.130
Um, number one,

00:25:35.250 --> 00:25:38.990
when we think about actually testing and assessing those

00:25:39.070 --> 00:25:44.080
aspects, what are the types of tests? Like athlete A walks in, what are the types of

00:25:44.110 --> 00:25:47.910
tests? How do we figure out if they have the vectors, if they have the force, and they have the

00:25:47.930 --> 00:25:51.230
frequency? Like what are you doing in terms of your assessments and your battery

00:25:51.250 --> 00:25:55.150
of assessments to really even find out like, hey, this is an area that they maybe excel

00:25:55.230 --> 00:25:55.950
at or an area that

00:25:56.010 --> 00:26:00.690
is really a need? Well, that's an area which, if we go some of the questions you've asked me a

00:26:00.730 --> 00:26:02.070
bit later on as well, um,

00:26:02.570 --> 00:26:04.070
that's an area that needs a lot of refinement.

00:26:04.330 --> 00:26:06.090
So bob has a very,

00:26:07.930 --> 00:26:09.070
very amateur background, quite

00:26:09.150 --> 00:26:13.250
frankly, and the ability to simply just measure a 30-meter or 60-meter

00:26:13.350 --> 00:26:15.010
sprint and use that as

00:26:15.050 --> 00:26:19.070
a criteria seems to be taken very much, uh, as read.

00:26:20.030 --> 00:26:22.170
And then a single push test, for example.

00:26:22.250 --> 00:26:27.270
In reality, what we need to start doing more so is force velocity profiling athletes.

00:26:27.710 --> 00:26:27.950
It's

00:26:28.050 --> 00:26:28.560
way more,

00:26:29.770 --> 00:26:35.090
um, way more valuable, and the information I've got from some of the data we collected with the previous

00:26:35.130 --> 00:26:42.070
federation I worked with, then the ability to measure the FV profile from an athlete is way more valuable

00:26:42.110 --> 00:26:42.230
than

00:26:42.270 --> 00:26:46.250
just simply how quickly they covered 30 meters or how c- quickly they covered

00:26:46.450 --> 00:26:48.090
60 meters, particularly when we're

00:26:48.150 --> 00:26:49.990
tealing, uh, particularly when we're dealing

00:26:50.090 --> 00:26:50.350
with

00:26:51.010 --> 00:26:57.330
larger athletes. Not everybody who's successful in the sport actually comes from a sprinting background. It's a useful background

00:26:57.370 --> 00:27:03.010
to have, but it's not the only, uh, only effective factor for moving a sled around.

00:27:04.970 --> 00:27:08.450
Yeah. I, I'm thinking about these tests now, absolutely, and it, it surprises

00:27:08.490 --> 00:27:12.010
me that, you know, force velocity or load velocity profiling isn't,

00:27:12.590 --> 00:27:12.630
you

00:27:12.670 --> 00:27:16.070
know, at least where it needs to be yet i- in this sport.

00:27:16.790 --> 00:27:17.930
It, it's really not, sadly.

00:27:18.150 --> 00:27:21.150
Um, and it's, it's a bit of a hard sell sometimes

00:27:21.250 --> 00:27:24.250
because many years back there's been

00:27:24.610 --> 00:27:27.110
good performances from athletes who didn't have to do these

00:27:27.150 --> 00:27:29.210
kind of things, but the evolution of sports

00:27:29.270 --> 00:27:31.030
science also says you don't have

00:27:31.070 --> 00:27:33.170
to do it- Mm-hmm ... but that data is available,

00:27:33.670 --> 00:27:40.140
and it will help you identify much more valuable areas of an athlete's performance, and therefore you can narrow your

00:27:40.150 --> 00:27:44.080
scope onto how you need to identify and how you need to train the athletes as well. That,

00:27:44.150 --> 00:27:48.110
that's been my thinking. It's not just simply we make life more complicated with more

00:27:48.150 --> 00:27:51.890
numbers. Actually, with enough data and enough insights, we make life

00:27:52.050 --> 00:27:57.030
more simple. We collect more numbers, and therefore we can refine our processes much more

00:27:57.230 --> 00:27:59.930
effectively. Perfect.

00:28:00.110 --> 00:28:00.969
That's it. See you later.

00:28:02.190 --> 00:28:04.180
Uh, no, for sure though, like- Life's so simpler

00:28:04.610 --> 00:28:04.990
Yeah, it's that

00:28:05.010 --> 00:28:05.270
simple.

00:28:05.690 --> 00:28:07.250
Um, I wish.

00:28:07.870 --> 00:28:09.090
Well, you know, things like power

00:28:09.110 --> 00:28:14.930
cleans, sprints, 30-meter, 60-meter sprints, right? Of course. While they provide a ton of value and they're great-

00:28:15.190 --> 00:28:17.050
Yeah ... these are these more global tests,

00:28:17.390 --> 00:28:17.939
right? Um-

00:28:18.020 --> 00:28:25.490
Absolutely ... and load velocity profiling, force velocity profiling, right, can give you some more insights into these more local

00:28:25.590 --> 00:28:27.040
areas which impact- Yeah

00:28:27.040 --> 00:28:27.740
... the global things.

00:28:28.350 --> 00:28:28.730
Exactly.

00:28:30.130 --> 00:28:30.650
Right. So,

00:28:31.390 --> 00:28:36.480
okay, so from where you're sitting right now saying, "Hey, the sport needs more of this, the sport needs more

00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:41.030
of this," is this something, though, that you are implementing with the athletes that you are working with currently?

00:28:41.590 --> 00:28:42.910
It's something I'm trying to.

00:28:43.150 --> 00:28:48.050
Uh, so the force velocity profiling, obviously you need a certain amount of tools and resources to be able

00:28:48.070 --> 00:28:51.010
to do that. Sure. Tools and resources which I don't always have at my

00:28:51.030 --> 00:28:51.930
disposal either. So,

00:28:52.570 --> 00:28:55.970
um, I've start, I, I, I do force velocity profiling

00:28:56.010 --> 00:28:57.050
on, on the Kaizer

00:28:57.090 --> 00:29:00.290
machines, um, but that's not a movement force velocity profile.

00:29:00.980 --> 00:29:01.990
But the, the ability

00:29:02.030 --> 00:29:07.070
to be able to link a running force velocity profile against the pushing force velocity profile

00:29:07.730 --> 00:29:08.270
is something

00:29:08.330 --> 00:29:11.170
that I believe has got a great application to research,

00:29:11.530 --> 00:29:11.730
um,

00:29:12.430 --> 00:29:15.970
because the, the one-to-one factor when you measure an athlete against themselves

00:29:16.070 --> 00:29:19.290
running and pushing, one of the biggest conundrums in the whole sport

00:29:19.350 --> 00:29:22.070
is we can measure athletes individually as much as we

00:29:22.090 --> 00:29:25.970
like. Only the monobob is an individual sport. Everything else is a

00:29:26.030 --> 00:29:28.070
team sport, and at that point in

00:29:28.130 --> 00:29:30.110
time, one plus one is

00:29:30.310 --> 00:29:36.110
never two. It really isn't. So you've gotta, you've gotta get the individual athletic performance level

00:29:36.170 --> 00:29:42.070
to a suitably high enough position where you can then start to extrapolate what will happen to team

00:29:42.130 --> 00:29:43.910
performance when these factors

00:29:44.010 --> 00:29:48.170
change. So of course you want to build the individual first, and that's the thing we have the most

00:29:48.210 --> 00:29:50.050
control over, but ultimately

00:29:50.190 --> 00:29:55.210
team performance is the hardest thing to build and develop

00:29:55.630 --> 00:30:00.990
if you don't already have those foundation levels from the individuals. I'm curious to

00:30:01.050 --> 00:30:04.090
know, you know, specificity is a term that's used all the time-

00:30:04.490 --> 00:30:05.980
Yeah ... especially in training. I'm curious

00:30:06.030 --> 00:30:11.070
to know throughout the entire year, especially during your training cycles,

00:30:11.550 --> 00:30:13.010
how specific do you have to be

00:30:13.110 --> 00:30:18.210
with vectors, uh, early on or, or throughout this entire process, and then how much,

00:30:18.910 --> 00:30:18.950
you

00:30:19.010 --> 00:30:25.982
know, I guess-How important is it for you to be really specific in terms of vectors all the time throughout

00:30:26.022 --> 00:30:28.992
the year, or is it like a, a certain time of year where you're like, "Hey, this is really important

00:30:29.042 --> 00:30:32.222
to us. We know that we're getting into a competition phase, and, like, we have to be doing

00:30:32.262 --> 00:30:37.682
things in the weight room or, or, um, on the track that are very vector-specific," versus like, "We can just

00:30:37.722 --> 00:30:38.061
enhance

00:30:38.122 --> 00:30:44.202
a certain quality, and we know that there might be some translation into performance just by enhancing this overall

00:30:44.242 --> 00:30:45.222
global quality." Yeah, I, I think the,

00:30:45.662 --> 00:30:47.402
the, the main focus on vector

00:30:47.442 --> 00:30:50.292
happens mostly behind

00:30:50.322 --> 00:30:52.042
the sled, and there's a... It's, it's,

00:30:52.602 --> 00:30:53.022
in terms of

00:30:53.062 --> 00:30:56.972
training, there's, uh, two branches of what I would ca- ... You have a push training, and

00:30:57.002 --> 00:31:00.002
then we have what I would classify as, like, mechanical transfer training,

00:31:00.462 --> 00:31:03.302
and the mechanical transfer is where the majority of that happens.

00:31:04.002 --> 00:31:04.962
Taking into the weight room, for

00:31:05.002 --> 00:31:11.122
example, uh, I like to enhance movement patterns in the may- weight room, overload movement patterns, but I don't get

00:31:11.162 --> 00:31:12.362
too vector-specific.

00:31:12.762 --> 00:31:12.892
Mm-hmm.

00:31:13.022 --> 00:31:13.322
Um,

00:31:14.142 --> 00:31:17.082
uh, and I don't think it's something we need, don't need to start

00:31:17.102 --> 00:31:22.022
doing our, our squats on a 45-degree leg press to make sure everything is going in the right way, for

00:31:22.062 --> 00:31:27.942
example, or it... I think you can way overcomplicate that. We are, we're overloading movement, the correct movement patterns, which

00:31:27.982 --> 00:31:31.122
will enable us to get the better vectors behind the sled.

00:31:31.542 --> 00:31:32.082
That's what the weight

00:31:32.122 --> 00:31:40.042
room's for. But this mechanical transfer using, uh, prowler sleds and, or any other types of resistance to

00:31:40.082 --> 00:31:41.542
be able to teach the mechanic

00:31:41.602 --> 00:31:41.762
of

00:31:42.522 --> 00:31:43.942
pushing and

00:31:44.162 --> 00:31:46.122
teach how to create angles

00:31:46.282 --> 00:31:48.042
and the right forces,

00:31:48.442 --> 00:31:49.862
gradually increasing the speed.

00:31:50.002 --> 00:31:53.082
So in the, in the off-season period, the April,

00:31:53.242 --> 00:31:58.962
May, early June, that's when I get, that's when I really focus and go to town on this mechanical

00:31:59.082 --> 00:32:02.022
overload because the biggest win there is it's

00:32:02.082 --> 00:32:08.362
a skill. If you can start to tie in loading with movement, with mechanics,

00:32:08.522 --> 00:32:10.322
with conditioning everything

00:32:10.422 --> 00:32:15.162
together, the likelihood of that transferring when you start to move at a higher speed

00:32:15.202 --> 00:32:15.962
is, is there.

00:32:16.582 --> 00:32:16.722
Um,

00:32:17.222 --> 00:32:20.062
and that's a, we mentioned before about transfer athletes.

00:32:20.882 --> 00:32:22.002
If I can, can go a-

00:32:22.212 --> 00:32:26.132
Yeah ... an adjunct avenue, if you like. When I do, when I, when I teach athletes this

00:32:26.182 --> 00:32:28.962
movement, most athletes that come into the sport know

00:32:29.002 --> 00:32:30.922
how to run. We've all been taught how to run

00:32:31.001 --> 00:32:32.001
from a, an ea- a, an

00:32:32.062 --> 00:32:38.022
early age. So when you're presented with this sled, whether it's, uh, uh,

00:32:38.552 --> 00:32:39.942
uh, on, on the ice or whether it's on the,

00:32:40.002 --> 00:32:42.982
on, on wheels, the thing

00:32:43.042 --> 00:32:44.122
to try

00:32:44.142 --> 00:32:49.002
and, uh, decondition is you cannot run with this sled. It's

00:32:49.062 --> 00:32:54.842
too heavy. You have to move differently with the sled. So I will always teach an athlete by using a

00:32:54.862 --> 00:32:55.062
lot of

00:32:55.102 --> 00:33:00.912
friction, so very heavy and very slow movements to learn the movement. Because we know, we know how to run,

00:33:00.942 --> 00:33:02.042
and I'm trying to teach you

00:33:02.082 --> 00:33:07.022
to push, so I want to get you so far away from running that

00:33:07.082 --> 00:33:10.892
you can't do it. It's kind of the opposite. If you go in the weight room and I

00:33:11.082 --> 00:33:15.102
wanted to teach you how to clean, we'd start with an empty bar, something light and something fast

00:33:15.122 --> 00:33:20.462
to work with. Flip the other way when I teach someone how to push because we know how to run,

00:33:20.542 --> 00:33:22.002
we know how to move at high speed.

00:33:22.511 --> 00:33:25.242
We now have to learn how to move this

00:33:25.342 --> 00:33:29.972
sled at the speed we want to, in the angles we want to, at

00:33:30.002 --> 00:33:33.032
the rate we want to, so I slow it right down,

00:33:34.102 --> 00:33:36.202
so using overload and friction for that.

00:33:37.922 --> 00:33:38.122
Right.

00:33:38.222 --> 00:33:40.002
So going back to your earlier

00:33:40.102 --> 00:33:41.042
comments, uh,

00:33:41.142 --> 00:33:43.022
here, number one, the weight room

00:33:43.542 --> 00:33:44.142
innately

00:33:44.152 --> 00:33:46.042
is just general, right? Like,

00:33:46.102 --> 00:33:49.602
this is- You, you can get- We like the specificity. We like- Yeah, you, you- You can get a little

00:33:49.622 --> 00:33:53.042
more specific, but you kind of let the- You can ... the mechanics of it and the technical side

00:33:53.122 --> 00:33:55.142
really come from, and the vector-specific stuff,

00:33:55.522 --> 00:33:55.942
really come

00:33:56.022 --> 00:33:58.002
from the technical work- Yeah ... uh,

00:33:58.162 --> 00:34:02.082
out on the track, right? That's it. Pushing a sled is a skill, and it's a very different skill

00:34:02.722 --> 00:34:06.392
than it might seem on the outside. Secondarily,

00:34:07.062 --> 00:34:10.071
it sounds like the Keiser leg press, from what you just described,

00:34:10.422 --> 00:34:13.982
tends to be a really great tool for you, uh- It does ... when trying to teach

00:34:14.022 --> 00:34:15.002
this maybe heavy and

00:34:15.121 --> 00:34:17.132
slow early on- Yeah ... and this pushing early

00:34:17.132 --> 00:34:17.422
on. Exactly,

00:34:18.202 --> 00:34:21.482
yeah. Now, the, the leg press itself, again, because it doesn't involve,

00:34:21.581 --> 00:34:25.002
um, doesn't involve that hip stability for the,

00:34:25.141 --> 00:34:27.262
uh, for the transfer behind

00:34:27.302 --> 00:34:32.621
to move something, but the ability to load the limb, I mean, I, I could... We, we could need a

00:34:32.722 --> 00:34:37.011
whole nother podcast if I want to just talk about the Keiser machines, quite frankly. Um, but,

00:34:37.141 --> 00:34:37.972
uh, maybe we can do that another

00:34:38.022 --> 00:34:39.022
time. But,

00:34:39.101 --> 00:34:39.822
uh, the,

00:34:40.581 --> 00:34:42.121
yeah, uh,

00:34:42.161 --> 00:34:45.121
being able to pick and choose how you overload a particular

00:34:45.181 --> 00:34:49.081
movement and using the Keiser stuff for that is, is,

00:34:49.161 --> 00:34:50.942
is premium material,

00:34:51.022 --> 00:34:56.681
quite frankly. Well, I am, I am curious to know a little bit more about how you are using... You

00:34:56.702 --> 00:35:03.802
mentioned earlier, you know, resources are required in order to do things the way you truly want to do it.

00:35:03.862 --> 00:35:09.431
However, it sounds like you are still doing some load or force velocity profiling and implement, you know, using that

00:35:09.442 --> 00:35:14.042
machinery, especially the Keiser leg press. So I'm just curious, like, how you find yourself using that with your

00:35:14.162 --> 00:35:17.282
athletes and the numbers that you're tied to. Is it a power output thing?

00:35:17.862 --> 00:35:18.122
Um,

00:35:18.362 --> 00:35:18.602
you know,

00:35:19.302 --> 00:35:23.042
are, how are you identifying maybe strengths and weaknesses by utilizing that

00:35:23.052 --> 00:35:27.542
and other equipment? Yeah, okay. I mean, well, I've been, I've been using the leg press for quite a few

00:35:27.582 --> 00:35:33.072
years now, and some of the data, uh, we pulled out, the, the, the British team when I was working

00:35:33.142 --> 00:35:35.102
back there in 2015, '16,

00:35:35.182 --> 00:35:37.202
was what got Dennis very interested

00:35:37.222 --> 00:35:39.122
in the first place. We sent some,

00:35:39.242 --> 00:35:42.542
uh, some s- some Keiser squat data,

00:35:42.662 --> 00:35:46.982
um, to the main offices at one point, and I just got an email saying, "You sure this is

00:35:47.042 --> 00:35:49.042
right? This is more than most of the NFL guys are

00:35:49.082 --> 00:35:52.162
putting out." And suddenly Dennis's interest was tipped

00:35:52.242 --> 00:35:55.431
right up. Next thing you know, we're having more and more conversations.

00:35:56.022 --> 00:35:56.262
Next,

00:35:56.642 --> 00:36:01.931
in comes Randy with a conversation and, and then it st- starts to snowball. And then we started getting

00:36:02.002 --> 00:36:08.182
some, uh, some of the force velocity profiling data from the A420, and that's when I started to

00:36:08.242 --> 00:36:13.122
really paint some pictures. Because when I can get these individual profiles

00:36:13.142 --> 00:36:18.222
from the athletes, from the men, from the women, from the ones who specialize in two-man, four-man pilots,

00:36:19.142 --> 00:36:20.102
I could start to see

00:36:20.122 --> 00:36:23.352
what I created a, I called an, uh, a-Like,

00:36:23.662 --> 00:36:28.352
a crew map, if you like. So you could see these force velocity profile diagnostics,

00:36:28.742 --> 00:36:28.962
and you

00:36:29.002 --> 00:36:29.982
could overlay the

00:36:30.022 --> 00:36:33.162
athletes together, and over a time,

00:36:33.242 --> 00:36:36.022
you could see the shape, if you

00:36:36.082 --> 00:36:38.202
like, of a successful push-

00:36:38.922 --> 00:36:40.522
Mm-hmm ... and the shape of a non-successful

00:36:40.642 --> 00:36:43.982
push, just in lines, effectively. And this is,

00:36:44.102 --> 00:36:45.092
um, it's,

00:36:45.222 --> 00:36:45.382
uh,

00:36:47.022 --> 00:36:49.262
like any kind of, um,

00:36:50.262 --> 00:36:54.062
scientific discovery. It wasn't really a eureka moment, but it's that

00:36:54.102 --> 00:36:54.942
point when you kinda go,

00:36:55.681 --> 00:37:01.042
"Huh, that's, that's odd. I wonder if the same result happens when I apply these parameters." And we

00:37:01.122 --> 00:37:02.042
st- just started to see

00:37:02.122 --> 00:37:04.982
patterns, and that was when I... That's the stuff I was doing with the A

00:37:05.042 --> 00:37:10.422
420. Um, but now I, I kind of... We did a standard force velocity profile,

00:37:10.942 --> 00:37:12.982
and I will build a,

00:37:13.122 --> 00:37:17.382
um, a load force spectrum for the athlete based on the output of that spectrum.

00:37:18.202 --> 00:37:18.482
Standard

00:37:18.522 --> 00:37:26.402
practice. Then I'll also use my own key performance indicator using single reps with the single legs as an identified

00:37:26.442 --> 00:37:28.062
load. And in that, I'm

00:37:28.102 --> 00:37:32.962
measuring, generally speaking, power output per leg. It's the easiest thing just to measure. It's the easiest thing

00:37:33.002 --> 00:37:34.002
that drives the intent

00:37:34.042 --> 00:37:38.262
of the athlete as well. Mm-hmm. I will also then measure the average power over

00:37:39.362 --> 00:37:41.142
somewhere six to eight reps, depending on the load,

00:37:41.622 --> 00:37:43.982
and the total power produced six to eight reps, depending on

00:37:44.022 --> 00:37:44.442
the load.

00:37:45.222 --> 00:37:50.982
And what I've done in this last iteration of collecting this data, I've also coupled that with the time taken

00:37:51.022 --> 00:37:52.022
to deliver the reps.

00:37:53.242 --> 00:37:54.142
So, and I'm

00:37:54.502 --> 00:37:56.932
not quite sure, it's something I'm playing with right now, but it's,

00:37:57.022 --> 00:37:59.062
uh, effectively developing a power score,

00:37:59.122 --> 00:38:01.182
which is a, a sum somewhere

00:38:01.242 --> 00:38:03.122
between the load of resistance

00:38:03.142 --> 00:38:07.902
at the pedal, the total power output, and the time taken to deliver that power.

00:38:08.022 --> 00:38:11.962
Mm-hmm. I don't know. I spoke briefly with Todd about it a few weeks ago, and we kind

00:38:12.022 --> 00:38:14.002
of, we weren't sure how to take it yet. But

00:38:14.062 --> 00:38:14.502
if you could

00:38:15.122 --> 00:38:21.202
find a way of finding some variables between, or sorry, finding a multiplication or a formula between those variables

00:38:22.122 --> 00:38:26.522
to create a power score, and I'm just playing around with the data right now. Right.

00:38:26.602 --> 00:38:31.062
Right. Well, we can play around with it. So I think you would actually, right, divide whatever score you had

00:38:31.082 --> 00:38:33.101
and then divide that by the time it took to perform

00:38:33.142 --> 00:38:36.972
those reps. Think that's what I would- 'Cause you're trying to produce, as I, I would think, and

00:38:37.002 --> 00:38:38.922
we're thinking out loud right now

00:38:39.062 --> 00:38:42.992
um, on this episode. But I would think that- Yes ... you're really trying to find out

00:38:43.022 --> 00:38:44.022
how much power we can produce in

00:38:44.042 --> 00:38:45.942
the shortest amount of time. Exactly. So

00:38:46.022 --> 00:38:47.962
therefore, and that's, I think the one I've got at the moment

00:38:48.002 --> 00:38:52.222
is effectively total power divided by time multiplied by load.

00:38:53.462 --> 00:38:53.642
Very

00:38:54.702 --> 00:38:59.082
cool. I can't quite remember. So it should effectively rationalize everything or, or, uh, balance everything

00:38:59.202 --> 00:39:02.062
to whether you've got 150 at the pedal, 250, 350.

00:39:02.922 --> 00:39:07.202
It shouldn't really matter. It should be a relative score. Yeah. That's awesome. Right. I really appreciate

00:39:07.242 --> 00:39:07.812
you sharing that,

00:39:08.022 --> 00:39:12.142
um, and really cool to see and, and hear what's currently going

00:39:12.242 --> 00:39:13.932
on- Yeah. Well, I've not

00:39:14.002 --> 00:39:16.762
had my A 4- ... you know, in the sport ... I've, I only got my A 420 back sometime

00:39:16.802 --> 00:39:18.051
in September this year. I've not had

00:39:18.062 --> 00:39:20.002
one for about four years. Mm-hmm. So

00:39:20.062 --> 00:39:25.962
it's, uh, the, um, kind of the systems have not been as strongly embedded in the Swiss system as they

00:39:25.982 --> 00:39:26.102
were

00:39:26.122 --> 00:39:31.022
in the British system, um, through university, collegiate-level sport, for example. And I've

00:39:31.842 --> 00:39:36.242
finally, uh, been able to get my hands on one. We have at our training base in, in Switzerland, now,

00:39:36.302 --> 00:39:36.412
and

00:39:36.462 --> 00:39:41.262
that's just opened the doors back again to gathering more research,

00:39:41.762 --> 00:39:46.362
um, on the athletes, trying to, trying to capture as much as performance as, as possible.

00:39:48.002 --> 00:39:50.182
It's really cool. Like I said, it's just really cool to hear

00:39:50.622 --> 00:39:55.082
someone who's in it right now, like, in the midst of the World Cup tour and, and going

00:39:55.102 --> 00:39:56.222
around and, and hearing

00:39:57.102 --> 00:39:57.262
what

00:39:58.042 --> 00:40:03.002
solutions you're trying to find and, and really how you're trying to solve this sport, which is really cool.

00:40:03.142 --> 00:40:06.062
So appreciate the transparency with that. You mentioned earlier some

00:40:06.102 --> 00:40:08.002
of the research- Yes ... that

00:40:08.082 --> 00:40:12.382
you were doing. Where are the current trends in, in research in terms of bobsleigh?

00:40:12.422 --> 00:40:17.042
Like, what are you currently working on, any, cool projects? What is currently in

00:40:17.062 --> 00:40:17.422
the works?

00:40:18.482 --> 00:40:20.122
Uh, I mean, myself,

00:40:21.302 --> 00:40:21.662
um-

00:40:22.542 --> 00:40:23.002
Or from what you

00:40:23.102 --> 00:40:26.202
see in the sport or other practitioners or other researchers.

00:40:27.042 --> 00:40:29.142
The main amount of research in, in, in,

00:40:29.232 --> 00:40:32.022
in, in bobsleigh as a sport itself is coming out of

00:40:32.062 --> 00:40:32.402
Germany.

00:40:32.702 --> 00:40:35.202
Um, universities of Potsdam and, University Cologne.

00:40:35.792 --> 00:40:38.142
There's a couple of researchers there who are working,

00:40:39.122 --> 00:40:39.362
um,

00:40:39.902 --> 00:40:40.961
sadly under, mostly under

00:40:41.002 --> 00:40:43.102
non-disclosure agreements, uh, with, uh,

00:40:43.762 --> 00:40:44.982
with BSD, which is the German

00:40:45.042 --> 00:40:45.862
Bobsleigh Federation.

00:40:46.562 --> 00:40:48.382
Um, but they're able to publish

00:40:48.822 --> 00:40:50.022
some of their data, mostly

00:40:50.062 --> 00:40:52.182
through, um, academic

00:40:52.242 --> 00:40:52.762
conferences.

00:40:53.502 --> 00:40:58.642
Um, and that data is coming out, and that's a lot of the information around the mechanics, particularly of the

00:40:58.702 --> 00:41:03.982
movement. And because of the level this is being collected at, it's being collected with the national team athletes, not

00:41:04.022 --> 00:41:10.802
with 15 randomly assigned collegiate athletes who were taking part in. a study, for example. Um, so you can be

00:41:10.842 --> 00:41:12.952
relatively sure that the data output we're getting

00:41:13.022 --> 00:41:15.462
is, is, is of high quality.

00:41:15.602 --> 00:41:18.152
Um, and that's where the majority work about this,

00:41:18.742 --> 00:41:20.182
uh, mechanical work in the lower,

00:41:20.462 --> 00:41:22.082
uh, in the lower limb joints,

00:41:22.822 --> 00:41:24.242
and then particularly mechanical

00:41:24.322 --> 00:41:27.062
movement in pushing versus running, where that's all come

00:41:27.102 --> 00:41:27.282
from.

00:41:28.102 --> 00:41:30.042
Um, and

00:41:30.102 --> 00:41:30.362
that's,

00:41:31.142 --> 00:41:35.562
I mean, it's, it's quite hard to understand where, where you want to take. It's a very simple element of

00:41:35.602 --> 00:41:38.042
a sport is you, you push a sled, quite frankly. It's,

00:41:38.182 --> 00:41:41.162
there's nothing, uh, there's nothing

00:41:41.242 --> 00:41:41.962
sexy about it.

00:41:42.642 --> 00:41:44.022
Um, but there's

00:41:44.062 --> 00:41:45.972
some, uh, some interesting

00:41:46.082 --> 00:41:53.582
features there which this, this, this differentiation between sprinting and pushing come in because it's very easy to look at

00:41:53.642 --> 00:42:01.902
one as the other and say that it's potentially wrong. But when it's been backed up by rigorous high-quality research

00:42:01.912 --> 00:42:04.972
like that, then it's, uh, it's a step forward in the right direction

00:42:05.002 --> 00:42:12.102
for the sport. Very cool. And it seems like, right, we, we've talked about that bobsleigh requires this combination of

00:42:12.162 --> 00:42:14.282
power, technique, speed, teamwork.

00:42:14.832 --> 00:42:20.342
Yeah. From your perspective, is there one metric or skill that's often overlooked that's crucial for success?

00:42:20.422 --> 00:42:23.152
I mean, I know you even mentioned that so much of the training happens in warm weather,

00:42:23.222 --> 00:42:23.982
but you gotta go out and do it

00:42:24.022 --> 00:42:26.562
on the ice. Um- Yes. What's overlooked,

00:42:26.582 --> 00:42:26.781
I guess?

00:42:27.458 --> 00:42:31.698
I think maybe not overlooked, but maybe not focused on as well as it could be, and that, it's rate

00:42:31.738 --> 00:42:32.018
of force

00:42:32.058 --> 00:42:35.018
development. Um, you know, we, we,

00:42:35.318 --> 00:42:37.248
we know tons about having better

00:42:37.258 --> 00:42:42.138
power. We know tons about having better force, but to be able to produce it at a high rate,

00:42:42.778 --> 00:42:46.598
that relies on the chassis being correct as well. So you have to high rate application,

00:42:47.178 --> 00:42:48.918
so being able to get the terminal end down,

00:42:49.068 --> 00:42:54.038
the foot, and get that applica- that application from the ground

00:42:54.738 --> 00:42:55.038
into the

00:42:55.058 --> 00:43:01.178
handle. So that all has to happen at such a high rate, and we're not just talking now leg press

00:43:01.398 --> 00:43:03.178
RFD or, uh,

00:43:04.118 --> 00:43:08.338
or ankle stiffness. It's a combination. It's a whole system of being reactive,

00:43:08.898 --> 00:43:10.378
and that rate of force,

00:43:11.398 --> 00:43:13.978
rate of h- very, very high force, high rate of

00:43:14.018 --> 00:43:19.198
high force being applied behind the sled. And we've known for years

00:43:19.838 --> 00:43:23.998
anybody who works in accelerating external objects, weightlifters or,

00:43:24.078 --> 00:43:25.258
uh, rowers particularly,

00:43:25.618 --> 00:43:30.178
the rate in which you produce the force is arguably more valuable than the net sum.

00:43:32.537 --> 00:43:33.358
So as I consider

00:43:33.398 --> 00:43:38.338
that, you know, those metrics and these important qualities, but I also kind of appreciate

00:43:39.358 --> 00:43:40.038
how much travel

00:43:40.048 --> 00:43:46.198
you're doing- Yes ... and what the circuit requires from you. How do you ensure that you're getting this quality

00:43:46.238 --> 00:43:50.118
training in with your athletes throughout the entire year when it's such a demanding travel

00:43:50.178 --> 00:43:50.558
schedule?

00:43:51.258 --> 00:43:54.498
Uh, short quest- or short answer, with difficulty.

00:43:54.858 --> 00:43:54.978
Um,

00:43:55.538 --> 00:43:55.718
so,

00:43:56.498 --> 00:43:58.938
uh, and this is the, this is the, the main reason we're having such

00:43:59.018 --> 00:44:01.258
a, a rigorous preseason training.

00:44:01.778 --> 00:44:04.058
If you're not in shape by the time you start in

00:44:04.178 --> 00:44:10.778
October, you're not gonna suddenly find shape through the season. You have to be able to use the races as

00:44:10.818 --> 00:44:11.178
measurement

00:44:11.218 --> 00:44:17.038
points and train rigorously through those. So this just January period, we're just about to hit now has four

00:44:17.058 --> 00:44:18.578
World Cup races back-to-back.

00:44:18.978 --> 00:44:20.238
Doesn't sound very much,

00:44:21.118 --> 00:44:22.138
but considering

00:44:23.418 --> 00:44:26.058
most athletes will finish racing around 4:00 PM on the Sunday,

00:44:26.718 --> 00:44:31.378
they'll then be faced with probably best part of a seven-to-eight-hour drive to get to the next location

00:44:31.438 --> 00:44:35.118
to be able to have Monday off, to then start the whole thing again on Tuesday.

00:44:35.837 --> 00:44:37.057
Uh, and that cycle will go

00:44:37.078 --> 00:44:41.968
on for four weeks. Um, it's, it's exhausting to say the least, especially if you're not ready for it, and

00:44:41.998 --> 00:44:43.298
there's no time to train

00:44:44.558 --> 00:44:47.258
very much for the long term in that, so you have to

00:44:47.338 --> 00:44:53.038
adapt how you go, and I have to cycle the pilots slightly differently to the brakeman because they

00:44:53.138 --> 00:44:58.317
have to slide in every, in every run. Brakemen don't. You can rotate them. Um,

00:44:58.407 --> 00:45:03.038
and pilots have to do every single day of training. Again, brakemen don't. They can be,

00:45:03.098 --> 00:45:07.058
they, they, uh, utilize for whichever particular discipline they're

00:45:07.078 --> 00:45:09.058
supposed to be in. Um,

00:45:09.098 --> 00:45:10.018
so trying to keep

00:45:10.458 --> 00:45:12.318
on the right. training is, is difficult,

00:45:12.698 --> 00:45:15.198
because some days you have to push through the tiredness barriers,

00:45:15.618 --> 00:45:17.998
um, for the sake of a performance later on in the

00:45:18.058 --> 00:45:21.018
year. Other days, you just have to get to, to let go

00:45:21.058 --> 00:45:23.148
and, uh, enable the rest to come

00:45:23.158 --> 00:45:24.978
in. Um, but the ultimate factor

00:45:25.038 --> 00:45:28.338
is on the, on the ice. That's, where we have to have most of our focus.

00:45:30.018 --> 00:45:33.038
In a sport that's so dominated by power and acceleration

00:45:33.338 --> 00:45:34.238
and a few steps,

00:45:34.738 --> 00:45:38.178
how much value do you place into energy systems development and aerobic

00:45:38.238 --> 00:45:40.998
system development? Not a great

00:45:41.058 --> 00:45:42.218
deal. Um,

00:45:42.558 --> 00:45:43.998
it's, it's, so absolute and, over

00:45:44.018 --> 00:45:46.338
in such a flash. The main feature

00:45:46.858 --> 00:45:50.418
or the main reason for focusing on either of those energy systems is about.

00:45:50.458 --> 00:45:52.347
recovery- Right. ... and conditioning.

00:45:53.018 --> 00:45:54.138
Ability to be able to do

00:45:54.218 --> 00:45:55.278
this repeatedly.

00:45:55.918 --> 00:45:58.078
So you've got to have some kind of base level of,

00:45:58.528 --> 00:46:01.038
of metabolic conditioning just to be able to recover the, from

00:46:01.058 --> 00:46:06.138
the bouts. And- Because they're pushing, these, these pushes and,

00:46:06.998 --> 00:46:07.318
um...

00:46:07.758 --> 00:46:08.058
Sorry.

00:46:08.198 --> 00:46:09.278
That's me bonging

00:46:09.298 --> 00:46:09.538
away.

00:46:10.138 --> 00:46:10.358
Um,

00:46:11.478 --> 00:46:13.238
the, the pushes are hugely

00:46:13.298 --> 00:46:16.038
neurological. Mm-hmm. They are central nervous system

00:46:16.198 --> 00:46:16.738
draining,

00:46:17.078 --> 00:46:20.158
plus the adrenal fatigue of going down a track.

00:46:21.258 --> 00:46:21.918
You know, I've done this

00:46:22.138 --> 00:46:25.058
sport for plus 15

00:46:25.098 --> 00:46:29.038
years. I've not been in the back of a bob for about two years now, but there's still no time

00:46:29.098 --> 00:46:32.208
I get in a bob and I've not got dry mouth, sweaty palms,

00:46:32.838 --> 00:46:36.338
even on the less notorious tracks.

00:46:36.738 --> 00:46:39.998
It's still a... You still wear a motorcycle helmet. You're in the back of a

00:46:40.038 --> 00:46:40.598
bathtub

00:46:41.298 --> 00:46:44.358
going 90 miles an hour down the ice. It's dangerous.

00:46:44.898 --> 00:46:45.158
So

00:46:45.578 --> 00:46:49.118
your adrenal fatigue is high. Your central nervous system stress is

00:46:49.158 --> 00:46:55.098
being drained, and then you, you're expected to do that with peak and trough, and peak and trough, and recovery,

00:46:55.218 --> 00:46:56.038
recovery, recovery.

00:46:56.158 --> 00:47:03.058
So having a base level of good conditioning and good aerobic, good anaerobic

00:47:03.068 --> 00:47:09.198
capacity is more important than you would think for longevity of performance, not for the actual performance aspect.

00:47:10.318 --> 00:47:12.988
Well said. Awesome. And even when you were talking through that, like, my palms were getting

00:47:13.018 --> 00:47:14.098
a little bit sweaty. Like-

00:47:14.878 --> 00:47:19.298
Just really trying to place myself in there. And like I said earlier, it's... I don't think anyone can ever

00:47:19.578 --> 00:47:20.198
truly understand

00:47:20.238 --> 00:47:22.058
unless you do it, um, which

00:47:22.098 --> 00:47:22.598
is cool. So-

00:47:23.198 --> 00:47:28.868
Thank you. Um, I'm, I'm curious to hear your comments on where that sport has been heading in terms of

00:47:28.868 --> 00:47:33.678
talent identification. Um, what? areas, what- That's- Is it other sports that they're looking at and saying, "We need to

00:47:33.738 --> 00:47:35.008
get athletes from that sport"?

00:47:35.318 --> 00:47:35.938
Um, or

00:47:36.018 --> 00:47:38.058
is it, you know, we' wanna develop

00:47:38.898 --> 00:47:40.158
bobsleigh athletes from a young

00:47:40.318 --> 00:47:44.128
age? Uh, where are they really turning to? That, that, that's a really interesting one because

00:47:44.178 --> 00:47:46.198
first of all, when we go, go to the, the youth development

00:47:46.258 --> 00:47:46.798
side of life,

00:47:47.418 --> 00:47:49.158
there's, um...

00:47:49.658 --> 00:47:53.238
The IOC have tried to introduce a Youth Olympic Games in the last

00:47:53.298 --> 00:47:58.118
10 years, and the first iteration was quite good, and thereafterwards it's not had much of...

00:47:58.878 --> 00:48:02.938
They're, they're throwing mud at a wall, but there's not much sticking. Finding youth bobsleigh athletes is quite

00:48:03.018 --> 00:48:03.438
difficult

00:48:04.098 --> 00:48:08.278
because the physical requirements for the sport are so absolute.

00:48:08.608 --> 00:48:10.038
There's not, like, a youth level

00:48:10.098 --> 00:48:11.118
of it. Mm-hmm.

00:48:11.238 --> 00:48:15.138
You could... And Switzerland has a club system, so you can, you get a bit more involvement from a,

00:48:15.838 --> 00:48:17.138
from a younger age or a wider

00:48:17.158 --> 00:48:23.128
audience. Um, but as terms of talent ID, this was something we went into very heavily with the British team,

00:48:23.418 --> 00:48:29.282
and for a while relied on kind of-Uh, mass attendance

00:48:29.382 --> 00:48:36.062
days and, uh, uh, attracting groups of people or, through advertising and saying, "On a particular day we'll do like

00:48:36.102 --> 00:48:42.222
a combine," if you like. Over time, that became quite a waste of resources and in- instead. we effectively developed

00:48:42.262 --> 00:48:43.082
a shopping list of

00:48:44.302 --> 00:48:45.202
people we wanted,

00:48:45.942 --> 00:48:46.262
uh,

00:48:46.502 --> 00:48:50.102
looking at, I don't know, looking at, uh, say, say for example, the British Championships.

00:48:50.692 --> 00:48:53.112
Mm-hmm. Athletes who make it to the semifinal, but not the final,

00:48:53.822 --> 00:48:57.932
and then finding the ones who are slightly more on the appropriate weight side for our

00:48:58.102 --> 00:48:59.142
sport. You know, people

00:48:59.162 --> 00:49:01.332
who are running 10.1, 10.2,

00:49:01.902 --> 00:49:05.272
they are running 10.1, 10.2, they're in athletics.

00:49:06.202 --> 00:49:07.302
But if you're running 10.5,

00:49:07.382 --> 00:49:10.071
10.6, with the greatest respect, you're not going anywhere

00:49:10.102 --> 00:49:14.022
in athletics. You've got a really good shot of transferring to do something

00:49:14.082 --> 00:49:17.782
good in b- behind a bob. So it was, we were still- we started to look for that. That was

00:49:17.822 --> 00:49:19.022
quite a successful program in

00:49:19.082 --> 00:49:23.342
looking for, uh, and we, we combined that with some. stuff that, um,

00:49:24.062 --> 00:49:28.002
uh, the UK Sport were doing at the time. So we had athletes came in, from pro rugby, from,

00:49:28.942 --> 00:49:30.062
some from athletics.

00:49:30.622 --> 00:49:31.282
Uh,

00:49:32.081 --> 00:49:32.232
other

00:49:32.302 --> 00:49:36.042
examples, I can't think. We found one guy who just put out a Wattbike score.

00:49:37.202 --> 00:49:37.402
A,

00:49:37.522 --> 00:49:39.182
um, unbelievable Wattbike score.

00:49:39.192 --> 00:49:42.722
I had a, I had a, a contact in Wattbike at the time. who called me up and said, "There's

00:49:42.762 --> 00:49:48.142
a guy here who's just come to one of our trade shows and put down an absolute smoking power output.

00:49:48.202 --> 00:49:49.042
He doesn't, he plays

00:49:49.062 --> 00:49:53.022
a bit of rugby, but that's it. Uh, I've got him, told him to get in touch with you." Absolutely.

00:49:53.602 --> 00:49:53.802
So

00:49:54.762 --> 00:49:56.242
some people don't have the obvious

00:49:56.342 --> 00:49:56.882
background.

00:49:57.642 --> 00:49:59.942
Um, so it's, it's, you don't want them to slip the

00:50:00.002 --> 00:50:00.982
net, but

00:50:01.002 --> 00:50:04.182
at the same point, you've got to be. relatively narrow in your scope,

00:50:04.222 --> 00:50:06.982
otherwise you're not

00:50:07.002 --> 00:50:09.082
gonna get the, uh, the magical blend.

00:50:09.822 --> 00:50:11.002
So you're watching those 100 meter,

00:50:11.562 --> 00:50:13.062
uh, sprints during the Summer Olympics. You're

00:50:13.142 --> 00:50:13.212
like,

00:50:13.722 --> 00:50:13.961
"You know."

00:50:15.062 --> 00:50:17.902
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you- You know. The guys who make the final- Who's number, who's number

00:50:18.002 --> 00:50:19.982
four or five- Then, then you're never gonna kick smoking. Exactly, yeah.

00:50:20.042 --> 00:50:23.042
You stand on the finish line of the semifinal and pick out, the big guy, that's the

00:50:23.062 --> 00:50:28.242
one you want. Yeah. Who's got the good acceleration, but, maybe loses it, towards the end. Yeah,

00:50:28.282 --> 00:50:28.762
exactly.

00:50:30.022 --> 00:50:35.492
That's funny. Um, well, cool. It sounds like you're starting to start asking the right questions now and setting up

00:50:35.522 --> 00:50:36.922
the systems in a good way

00:50:37.002 --> 00:50:37.431
versus, "Hey,

00:50:38.062 --> 00:50:42.242
come one, come all. Let's just set up a low performance trial." Versus, "Hey, we can probably be a little

00:50:42.282 --> 00:50:46.292
more detailed about who we're trying to chase. Maybe these people who are already really, really good athletes-

00:50:46.702 --> 00:50:47.022
Exactly

00:50:47.061 --> 00:50:48.042
... might, might serve as a

00:50:48.062 --> 00:50:51.012
better pool, um- Yeah ... for what we're trying to- And you- ... for what we're trying to

00:50:51.082 --> 00:50:53.012
achieve ... you' know, you, you s- you start with speed,

00:50:53.782 --> 00:50:55.012
and you can't go too far

00:50:55.082 --> 00:50:57.122
wrong. Um, you start with strength,

00:50:57.242 --> 00:51:02.922
you, you can, again, as, a generalization, it's normally quite easy to make a stro- a, a fast person

00:51:03.062 --> 00:51:05.702
strong, but you can't always make a strong person fast.

00:51:07.142 --> 00:51:08.082
I like that, start with speed

00:51:08.122 --> 00:51:12.102
and it's hard to go wrong. Yeah. I like that. one.

00:51:12.182 --> 00:51:17.182
So I'm curious to know more about the dynamics

00:51:17.282 --> 00:51:19.122
of a team environment

00:51:19.162 --> 00:51:22.262
in bobsleigh. You mentioned earlier,

00:51:22.902 --> 00:51:23.902
one of your early comments

00:51:24.042 --> 00:51:27.062
was the brakeman, "Hey, you sprint and get

00:51:27.102 --> 00:51:29.002
in, and you kind of- Yep ... duck your head and you stay in your

00:51:29.062 --> 00:51:31.222
lane." And then you have the pilots.

00:51:31.882 --> 00:51:32.042
Yes.

00:51:32.282 --> 00:51:34.162
Who, I don't know much about this sport.

00:51:35.162 --> 00:51:35.182
I

00:51:35.242 --> 00:51:35.522
don't.

00:51:36.102 --> 00:51:36.922
I'm gonna guess

00:51:37.462 --> 00:51:42.702
that, I'm not gonna call them divas, but you know, they carry themselves maybe in a different way.

00:51:42.742 --> 00:51:44.082
Right? I, I wouldn't stop you if you call them

00:51:44.142 --> 00:51:48.002
that, but it's, uh... It's just a guess. Is that accurate?

00:51:48.042 --> 00:51:48.842
I'm on the right track?

00:51:49.262 --> 00:51:51.022
It's, uh, it could be a mi-

00:51:51.062 --> 00:51:53.142
it could be a, a misconception.

00:51:53.542 --> 00:51:53.802
The

00:51:55.822 --> 00:51:57.022
pilots have a lot of pressure on

00:51:57.062 --> 00:52:01.062
them. They are- Yeah ... required to pilot that sled down that track of ice

00:52:02.002 --> 00:52:03.582
X amount of times a day

00:52:03.662 --> 00:52:08.402
with, sometimes with just themselves in it, sometimes with one passenger, sometimes with three passengers.

00:52:09.102 --> 00:52:14.062
So how they actually... You know, they, w- without pilots you can do nothing. The, the, the sport.

00:52:14.122 --> 00:52:16.202
is, there' is no such sport as bobsleigh.

00:52:16.282 --> 00:52:18.942
starting, sadly.

00:52:19.002 --> 00:52:21.102
The, the sport is, as the Germans

00:52:21.162 --> 00:52:24.162
call it, Bobfahrer, bob driving. So the result comes

00:52:24.182 --> 00:52:27.062
at the finish line. So you can start as well as you like. If your

00:52:27.122 --> 00:52:29.102
pilot hasn't got a good set

00:52:29.122 --> 00:52:29.572
of hands,

00:52:30.202 --> 00:52:32.042
you're going nowhere. So

00:52:32.362 --> 00:52:35.062
it's, it's, tho- those three elements all the time. But yeah, bob pilots,

00:52:35.722 --> 00:52:37.742
I think if you, uh, took a straw poll of a lot of,

00:52:38.042 --> 00:52:41.002
a lot of brakemen, I think the word diva might come up quite a

00:52:41.042 --> 00:52:43.142
few times. Um- I don't know.

00:52:43.222 --> 00:52:47.082
I'm just asking. I'm, I'm just telling.

00:52:47.501 --> 00:52:48.182
Yeah.

00:52:49.222 --> 00:52:49.332
Um-

00:52:49.332 --> 00:52:51.042
Uh, I think, uh, sometimes,

00:52:51.262 --> 00:52:54.002
sometimes without prejudice and sometimes

00:52:54.122 --> 00:52:56.982
with. But, uh, the, there's that, it's a strange relationship

00:52:57.022 --> 00:53:00.462
between the two. Um, you, you need each other, quite frankly.

00:53:01.072 --> 00:53:06.002
The, the, the pilot needs the brakeman, the brakeman needs the pilot. You can't perform one without the other.

00:53:06.682 --> 00:53:06.862
Um,

00:53:07.442 --> 00:53:08.042
but yes, the,

00:53:08.262 --> 00:53:10.002
like I said, that, I don't want to keep using

00:53:10.022 --> 00:53:16.522
the word diva, um, 'cause I think anyone, any pilots listening, they'll come lynch me. Um- Interesting, though. Now there,

00:53:16.622 --> 00:53:19.002
so there's got to be this, vibes have to be right

00:53:19.022 --> 00:53:23.642
in order to perform well, right? I can see- If the vibes are off outside of the sport, it' just,

00:53:23.722 --> 00:53:27.792
somehow it, doesn't work on the track. No. Is that' right? You're, you're absolutely right. I mean, you, your,

00:53:28.012 --> 00:53:30.062
your, your pilot is, uh, unofficially your captain,

00:53:30.102 --> 00:53:32.042
if you like. It's their sled,

00:53:32.742 --> 00:53:35.102
it's their performance, it's their name in the rankings,

00:53:35.902 --> 00:53:37.342
so ultimately it's their performance.

00:53:38.142 --> 00:53:38.662
They,

00:53:39.002 --> 00:53:42.032
depending on which, uh, system you work in, whether it's, uh,

00:53:42.402 --> 00:53:45.172
the American system, British, English, whatever, it functions slightly

00:53:45.242 --> 00:53:50.102
different. Um, so in, within the Swiss system, the pilots find their own brakeman, and they pay

00:53:50.122 --> 00:53:53.062
their own brakeman. So they are paid as part of their team,

00:53:53.322 --> 00:53:55.122
so their, their role is relatively

00:53:55.182 --> 00:53:56.042
clear. Mm-hmm.

00:53:56.442 --> 00:53:56.642
Um,

00:53:57.102 --> 00:54:00.982
in other centralized systems, say the US system, for example, the athletes are part of a pool, and

00:54:01.002 --> 00:54:02.022
they get assigned

00:54:02.062 --> 00:54:06.162
to, a pilot. So there's a, there's a, it, it functions slightly differently.

00:54:07.392 --> 00:54:08.002
Very cool. But ultimately,

00:54:08.342 --> 00:54:10.242
if you're assigned or whether you're chosen

00:54:10.262 --> 00:54:10.762
and paid,

00:54:11.302 --> 00:54:16.122
that's your person, that's your pilot, that's your job for that period of time, until

00:54:16.142 --> 00:54:21.022
told otherwise. Wait a minute, though. But the brakeman says, "Listen, unless I'm

00:54:21.032 --> 00:54:22.102
pushing, you got

00:54:22.142 --> 00:54:25.162
no chance. Like, unless we have a first, you know, a great

00:54:25.242 --> 00:54:28.282
start, it doesn't matter how great of a driver

00:54:28.302 --> 00:54:33.571
you are. If we're not going fast, I-It's not really gonna help, you know, to start, so unless you're the

00:54:33.602 --> 00:54:35.142
monobob and you're responsible for everything.

00:54:35.702 --> 00:54:36.041
That's it.

00:54:36.762 --> 00:54:38.332
I mean, there's, there's, there's

00:54:38.342 --> 00:54:42.322
quite, quite easily agreed there's three factors which enable you to have success

00:54:42.342 --> 00:54:44.242
in bob. The quality of your push,

00:54:44.742 --> 00:54:47.322
the quality of your drive, and the quality of your equipment.

00:54:50.402 --> 00:54:51.022
Can you elaborate

00:54:51.062 --> 00:54:58.182
a little bit on the equipment? Sorry, I just lost you there, Gabe. No problem. Can you elaborate a little

00:54:58.242 --> 00:55:03.102
bit on the equipment aspect? Yeah. Well, the equipment is, quite frankly, your, your sled and your runners.

00:55:04.242 --> 00:55:04.502
Um,

00:55:04.802 --> 00:55:07.042
and there are different qualities of sleds and different qualities

00:55:07.082 --> 00:55:13.202
of runners. Now, this is definitely not my area of expertise. Uh, you need to speak to our mechanics or

00:55:13.242 --> 00:55:14.012
someone who knows more about

00:55:14.042 --> 00:55:17.142
runners than I do. Um, but the,

00:55:17.222 --> 00:55:22.122
that is a, a, a relatively big area of, uh, of bone of contention right now in terms of sled

00:55:22.182 --> 00:55:25.042
manufacturing. Mm-hmm. 'Cause there's not one manufacturer,

00:55:25.842 --> 00:55:29.222
and manufacturers or nations with a lot more cash to spend

00:55:29.822 --> 00:55:34.082
tend to have more of an upper hand with manufacturers or nations that don't have as much cash to spend.

00:55:34.722 --> 00:55:34.962
Um,

00:55:36.022 --> 00:55:38.272
but ef- effectively those, that, that holy trinity,

00:55:38.362 --> 00:55:42.402
you know, it's, it's two out of three ain't bad, but it's not gonna win you anything.

00:55:44.482 --> 00:55:45.982
Yeah. I mean, that's, uh... Look, at the

00:55:46.022 --> 00:55:51.382
end of the day, you can, you can push fast, you can push hard, and you can drive well, but

00:55:51.642 --> 00:55:54.022
it's also gotta be quality equipment. It has to

00:55:54.062 --> 00:55:58.002
be, yes. I could see a lot of pilots saying, "Well, if I only had

00:55:58.062 --> 00:56:04.102
that one." That becomes quite a, quite a downward spiral if thing- things aren't controlled properly. Yeah, just that-

00:56:04.142 --> 00:56:07.052
Mm-hmm ... the, the endless hunt for better equipment rather

00:56:07.122 --> 00:56:09.122
than a improvement of all

00:56:09.142 --> 00:56:12.082
three. So looking back on your

00:56:12.122 --> 00:56:15.132
career, everything about your bobsleigh career, is there a moment,

00:56:15.762 --> 00:56:15.992
whether

00:56:16.042 --> 00:56:22.982
it's, you know, a, a race, a training session, just anything that stands out to you as this unforgettable

00:56:23.022 --> 00:56:25.022
moment? Um,

00:56:27.642 --> 00:56:28.042
there's a couple

00:56:28.062 --> 00:56:30.992
of races, uh, which are, which,

00:56:31.102 --> 00:56:34.222
which are pretty well, well ingrained. One would be last year when our,

00:56:34.682 --> 00:56:37.962
when our Swiss two-man guys won their first two-man race in La

00:56:38.062 --> 00:56:39.042
Plagne. Uh, that

00:56:39.102 --> 00:56:39.291
was,

00:56:39.782 --> 00:56:42.982
uh, sadly I remember a lot of it 'cause I was actually at home ill, so I had to

00:56:43.002 --> 00:56:43.142
watch

00:56:43.202 --> 00:56:45.122
on the TV. But, um,

00:56:45.802 --> 00:56:48.122
that was the culmination of a lot of work.

00:56:48.662 --> 00:56:50.042
A little bit of good fortune as

00:56:50.102 --> 00:56:53.162
well because the, uh, the sled who they were effectively against

00:56:53.202 --> 00:56:56.982
in the last run, they made an error, but that's the sports. You make an error, you

00:56:57.022 --> 00:56:57.442
pay for it.

00:56:58.162 --> 00:57:00.362
Um, and

00:57:00.762 --> 00:57:01.222
the...

00:57:03.822 --> 00:57:05.222
But the time I was working with the British

00:57:05.322 --> 00:57:09.402
team as well, there was a couple of races in summer, it's in Lake Placid particularly,

00:57:09.502 --> 00:57:12.322
where they just opened everybody's

00:57:12.402 --> 00:57:16.962
eyes and barnstormed down the track, quite frankly, and it's just so satisfying to

00:57:17.002 --> 00:57:22.482
watch that amount of success come amount of... when you know the work that's gone in beforehand

00:57:22.522 --> 00:57:24.372
as well. Mm-hmm.

00:57:25.231 --> 00:57:30.102
Um, they, they were, they're, they're two, two, uh, teams that stick in my mind over the last 10 plus

00:57:30.182 --> 00:57:30.412
years.

00:57:31.462 --> 00:57:31.702
Um,

00:57:32.002 --> 00:57:33.122
but one day,

00:57:33.902 --> 00:57:34.242
I remember

00:57:34.302 --> 00:57:39.982
from a, from a real kind of coaching perspective, I did my best ever Vince Lombardi impression, I think, on

00:57:40.022 --> 00:57:46.082
this particular day. We had a talent session, a talent group we, we, we developed in the British team around

00:57:46.222 --> 00:57:50.262
2013 somewhere. We had a group of about

00:57:52.202 --> 00:57:54.122
10 or 12 athletes at the push track, and we'd

00:57:54.202 --> 00:57:56.262
done, through the summer period,

00:57:56.342 --> 00:58:00.892
we'd done, uh, one or two kind of periodic testings with these guys on the push track. And we'd

00:58:01.062 --> 00:58:02.062
coached them, taught

00:58:02.082 --> 00:58:03.982
them how to do everything we think they

00:58:04.002 --> 00:58:07.002
should need to do, and this was the day they had to make their,

00:58:08.482 --> 00:58:09.302
their performance

00:58:09.662 --> 00:58:11.022
to, to push themselves into the

00:58:11.042 --> 00:58:14.122
national team. And they did their first,

00:58:14.482 --> 00:58:16.102
their first round, their first measured

00:58:16.182 --> 00:58:16.482
push,

00:58:17.462 --> 00:58:19.482
and it was distinctly

00:58:19.522 --> 00:58:24.002
average, quite frankly, compared to what we knew they'd done in their training points between that point.

00:58:24.662 --> 00:58:25.062
And this is

00:58:25.142 --> 00:58:26.992
a, I just, I don't know,

00:58:27.062 --> 00:58:33.042
it's, um, sometimes people need a bit more motivation. I just gathered them into the, the start house

00:58:33.082 --> 00:58:33.132
at

00:58:33.142 --> 00:58:38.142
the top of the track, and I, I, I forget the actual words I used. Somebody who was there might

00:58:38.182 --> 00:58:40.162
be able to s- tell me more accurately.

00:58:41.482 --> 00:58:44.082
Uh, it was just a motivational point about you're just better

00:58:44.102 --> 00:58:46.951
than this, you know. All you're doing now is showing me that

00:58:47.022 --> 00:58:49.002
you can do it, but you're not performing.

00:58:50.081 --> 00:58:52.982
And it was quite incredible. It was, uh, you could cut the atmosphere with

00:58:53.022 --> 00:58:55.962
a knife. I think it's the first time I can recall going into

00:58:56.022 --> 00:58:59.202
that kind of sticking a rocket up somebody.

00:59:00.122 --> 00:59:03.022
And the change from the first push to the second

00:59:03.082 --> 00:59:07.982
push, I mean, we, we measure this in hundreds. It doesn't sound very impressive when you say six or 700s

00:59:08.022 --> 00:59:15.172
faster, but in terms of our sport, that's a lifetime. Mm-hmm. When everybody suddenly improves their start performance by, that

00:59:15.202 --> 00:59:17.052
much, something's happened. And

00:59:17.102 --> 00:59:20.312
that was a, that's a point in time that I remember being

00:59:21.722 --> 00:59:24.142
very satisfied with the work we'd done to that point

00:59:24.182 --> 00:59:26.422
to get them their relative skills,

00:59:27.262 --> 00:59:30.032
but this was a real turning point for, right, you've got the skills,

00:59:30.162 --> 00:59:31.922
now perform. Uh,

00:59:32.022 --> 00:59:32.862
and that, that was,

00:59:33.642 --> 00:59:35.022
yeah, uh, that, that's a day that

00:59:35.062 --> 00:59:39.282
sticks in my head. Yeah. Very cool. I mean, I can imagine

00:59:39.342 --> 00:59:40.982
that's an incredible experience as

00:59:41.022 --> 00:59:45.142
a coach to being, to know that that performance exists and then being able to

00:59:45.182 --> 00:59:50.122
unlock that. Yeah. It, and it, I think since that point, it's something, it's a conversation I have with many

00:59:50.202 --> 00:59:51.992
people. We, we train so much, and

00:59:52.022 --> 00:59:56.232
when you train, you think about your performance, or I expect you to think about your performance,

00:59:57.042 --> 00:59:59.012
because you're focused on getting it right

00:59:59.062 --> 01:00:04.022
through repetition and trial and error experimentation. But when the time to perform is

01:00:04.082 --> 01:00:07.042
coming, you can't think of anything but just doing it,

01:00:07.802 --> 01:00:08.142
because

01:00:09.422 --> 01:00:14.002
that's why you train. If your head is full of, uh, a, a process,

01:00:14.502 --> 01:00:15.122
then you're never gonna

01:00:15.162 --> 01:00:17.122
do it, not with a,

01:00:17.742 --> 01:00:20.242
not with the, not with the fire that's required to perform.

01:00:20.302 --> 01:00:20.702
Your head

01:00:21.142 --> 01:00:23.162
has to be empty other than just

01:00:23.222 --> 01:00:26.142
fire. Uh, and that's, that was, that was a really,

01:00:27.142 --> 01:00:30.122
a really cool point I can remember with a, with a really good group

01:00:30.162 --> 01:00:35.474
of athletes as well. So when you watch as a coach, when you're actually there, are you watching from up

01:00:35.514 --> 01:00:37.054
top? Are you watching from down low or,

01:00:37.694 --> 01:00:40.054
like, when the actual event is going on? It depends on when we...

01:00:40.074 --> 01:00:43.814
When, when, when we, when we train, I'll tend to be somewhere down, down the push start ramp,

01:00:44.054 --> 01:00:48.694
uh, with a camera, uh, looking for the mo- what I believe is the most sign- significant thing to record

01:00:48.774 --> 01:00:51.074
or input at that time. On a race

01:00:51.094 --> 01:00:56.064
day, I am normally on the very front of the sled. So myself and, uh, uh, at the moment our

01:00:56.094 --> 01:00:57.074
mechanic, uh,

01:00:57.084 --> 01:01:00.784
uh, Hans, we will be the ath- we will be the, the two people who put the sled into the

01:01:00.834 --> 01:01:03.994
block. I like to be on the front because it enables me to check the

01:01:04.054 --> 01:01:04.454
athletes,

01:01:05.354 --> 01:01:07.914
um, and if, if required, motivate,

01:01:08.214 --> 01:01:12.114
cue, and I can... It's the most live view I can get of the whole thing

01:01:12.154 --> 01:01:15.954
as well. We, we're a bit restricted as to where we're allowed to be when the TV cameras roll on,

01:01:15.994 --> 01:01:18.954
on a race day as well, so the best view is right next to the

01:01:19.014 --> 01:01:19.234
sled.

01:01:19.594 --> 01:01:21.114
Um, and that's where

01:01:21.214 --> 01:01:23.214
I've positioned myself

01:01:24.074 --> 01:01:25.044
for the last 10 years on the

01:01:25.074 --> 01:01:27.974
front of the sled, and it's, uh, it's somewhere

01:01:28.134 --> 01:01:30.294
I, I, I believe I've got the most

01:01:30.674 --> 01:01:30.994
chance

01:01:31.004 --> 01:01:33.034
to be last-minute impact if

01:01:33.054 --> 01:01:37.134
required as well. Sometimes you are required for emergency operation, but,

01:01:37.254 --> 01:01:40.054
uh, mostly not. The athletes know what they're doing.

01:01:40.544 --> 01:01:41.094
There's only one way

01:01:41.114 --> 01:01:42.014
to go, and they

01:01:42.054 --> 01:01:47.173
just do it. I'm sure all athletes are different and all scenarios are different, but what's maybe that most common

01:01:47.274 --> 01:01:49.054
cue you hear yourself yelling out

01:01:49.094 --> 01:01:49.514
right before?

01:01:53.074 --> 01:01:56.944
I think... Oh, geez. You'd probably have to ask the athletes about this one,

01:01:57.034 --> 01:01:58.994
but I seem to... It

01:01:59.034 --> 01:02:05.114
depends on, I think it depends on who. You're absolutely right, some athletes don't, don't, don't take too kindly

01:02:05.124 --> 01:02:11.074
to getting yelled at. Um, and there's been different coaches with some very different, uh, a- approaches into

01:02:11.114 --> 01:02:16.253
this particular way, uh, this particular type of motivational pre-race routine, if you like.

01:02:19.894 --> 01:02:22.214
I think that if I was to encapsulate the most common

01:02:22.234 --> 01:02:25.033
phrase I use, something along the lines of, "Let it off the chain."

01:02:27.394 --> 01:02:30.004
Yeah. But there's this, the, for me, there's... Once you're on

01:02:30.034 --> 01:02:31.673
that start block,

01:02:32.814 --> 01:02:34.014
you can, uh, there's probably 100

01:02:34.054 --> 01:02:35.924
different phrases. Drop the hammer,

01:02:36.014 --> 01:02:41.194
bring the fire. Pick, pick whichever one you want, which, which denotes that particular explosion in life.

01:02:41.694 --> 01:02:42.054
Mm-hmm. Um,

01:02:43.554 --> 01:02:44.234
but the training's

01:02:44.274 --> 01:02:46.094
been done. This is a point now of

01:02:46.214 --> 01:02:48.834
just getting hold of that sled

01:02:49.014 --> 01:02:50.074
and ripping it to

01:02:50.094 --> 01:02:51.174
shreds. Uh,

01:02:51.254 --> 01:02:53.114
because what will happen,

01:02:53.994 --> 01:02:54.123
will

01:02:54.234 --> 01:02:57.954
happen. All your training has been done. If you've done that

01:02:58.014 --> 01:03:03.934
right, now you're just gonna go. Uh, it, uh, it's hard to put this into one sentence without just repeating

01:03:03.954 --> 01:03:04.054
the

01:03:04.114 --> 01:03:06.094
same kind of stock

01:03:06.134 --> 01:03:08.054
phrases. Right. Rip it and rip

01:03:08.134 --> 01:03:09.794
it. Whatever you want to call it,

01:03:10.074 --> 01:03:10.354
so.

01:03:11.274 --> 01:03:13.144
Awesome. No, I appreciate that and,

01:03:13.194 --> 01:03:17.994
and obviously, you know, hearing your insights and getting as close as we can to it without being in the

01:03:18.014 --> 01:03:21.044
sleigh is obviously really awesome. When you're watching at home now, you, you mentioned that

01:03:21.074 --> 01:03:21.104
you

01:03:21.154 --> 01:03:21.894
had to watch home when you're,

01:03:22.414 --> 01:03:25.974
uh, you watched at home when you were ill. Yeah. Do you

01:03:26.034 --> 01:03:28.024
find yourself- Oh, yeah ... tilting

01:03:28.054 --> 01:03:33.694
with the turns? I found myself, when you, when you see the, the, the contact point, I find myself going

01:03:33.794 --> 01:03:36.034
tense behind. Just, just- Yeah ... just

01:03:36.114 --> 01:03:38.034
tightening up, being, being right

01:03:38.074 --> 01:03:40.954
there with them, exactly. There's, there's not a- Oh, wow ... there's not a single

01:03:41.014 --> 01:03:45.974
time I'm not either behind the sled or in the TV. If you were to put a heart

01:03:46.014 --> 01:03:51.014
rate monitor on me at the same time, um, or a blood pressure reader, uh, I think doctors would

01:03:51.034 --> 01:03:52.914
advise me to sit down, quite frankly. So it's,

01:03:53.014 --> 01:03:53.954
uh- You should do it

01:03:54.054 --> 01:03:58.994
next time ... it, it's just, it's just something you can feel about that start atmosphere. And when you

01:03:59.034 --> 01:04:00.254
get it right and the athletes

01:04:00.294 --> 01:04:04.614
have, uh, have to have the level of performance

01:04:04.694 --> 01:04:06.214
that, um,

01:04:07.354 --> 01:04:09.074
that can challenge an international level,

01:04:09.694 --> 01:04:09.934
there's

01:04:10.014 --> 01:04:12.054
that hard-to-describe

01:04:13.034 --> 01:04:14.074
aura, if you like.

01:04:15.354 --> 01:04:19.254
Uh, if I just, the, the way I... It's like a pack of wild dogs just waiting

01:04:19.314 --> 01:04:24.044
and then bang, they're after their prey. Uh, and it, it's so impressive when you can feel it

01:04:24.074 --> 01:04:28.134
as well as just see it. And that, for me, is the thing that really keeps me coming back to

01:04:28.154 --> 01:04:31.974
it, 'cause it's, there's nothing I've felt that's like that. It's not the start

01:04:32.014 --> 01:04:36.094
of a 100-meter race. There's no gun.

01:04:36.214 --> 01:04:40.154
Uh, the closest by the kickoff in rugby, where the first hit's the most important thing.

01:04:41.004 --> 01:04:41.294
Um,

01:04:42.294 --> 01:04:44.874
but it's where everyone's involved, not just one or two people.

01:04:45.114 --> 01:04:46.074
Uh, I, it's hard

01:04:46.114 --> 01:04:51.954
to encapsulate it. Yeah, you're doing a good job with words. So I appreciate you at least getting us halfway

01:04:52.014 --> 01:04:56.174
there. Um, finishing up with some quick hitters here. Sure. Uh, a little bit of a lightning round, if you

01:04:56.194 --> 01:05:01.034
don't mind. Okay. Out of the 14 to 20 turns or so, which one is

01:05:01.054 --> 01:05:03.014
your favorite? Favorite

01:05:03.054 --> 01:05:07.004
turn? Oh, geez. I mean, hard to say because depends on

01:05:07.014 --> 01:05:12.194
which the track you're in. Um, so your favorite turn

01:05:12.214 --> 01:05:13.874
or favorite track? Uh,

01:05:14.054 --> 01:05:19.174
let's go to favorite track. Favorite track, I mean, I think I wouldn't be alone if I said probably Summeritz.

01:05:20.094 --> 01:05:22.974
Uh, Summeritz is, is unique in the fact that it's the only natural track in the

01:05:23.014 --> 01:05:24.144
world. Uh,

01:05:24.254 --> 01:05:30.194
and within there, probably favorite corner, there's a corner called Sunny

01:05:30.254 --> 01:05:35.474
Corner. I couldn't even give you a number 'cause they're all, like, they're all named rather than numbered in that.

01:05:35.594 --> 01:05:39.994
Um, somewhere near the top of the track. It's just a, a corner that has a particular feeling to it

01:05:40.034 --> 01:05:40.103
as

01:05:40.134 --> 01:05:40.794
a break, which is

01:05:41.234 --> 01:05:41.594
beautiful.

01:05:42.094 --> 01:05:46.074
Oh, that's cool. That was perhaps a better question, then. Just anywhere in the world, favorite turn.

01:05:46.154 --> 01:05:47.034
That's, uh, so

01:05:47.054 --> 01:05:52.534
what's that one called? Second's, uh, that's called Sunny Corner. And the second to that is, uh, probably in Whistler.

01:05:52.754 --> 01:05:53.974
The bot- very bottom of the track

01:05:54.014 --> 01:05:56.274
is called Thunderbird. That is the fastest

01:05:56.314 --> 01:05:59.974
curve in the world. What kind of speeds do they get up

01:06:00.014 --> 01:06:03.214
to there? Uh, top speed with four-man

01:06:03.474 --> 01:06:05.014
is, if I remember correctly,

01:06:05.054 --> 01:06:07.614
it's around, it's 157,

01:06:08.634 --> 01:06:09.254
157

01:06:09.294 --> 01:06:12.974
half something. Not sh- not, not far shy of 100 mile

01:06:13.014 --> 01:06:14.154
an hour. Wow.

01:06:15.334 --> 01:06:16.024
Your favorite,

01:06:16.574 --> 01:06:19.954
when you were competing, your favorite go-to pre-race meal.

01:06:23.194 --> 01:06:27.014
Favorite pre-race meals. Or night before. You know, you, I don't know what time you're always going out in the

01:06:27.034 --> 01:06:30.254
morning, but. Uh, de- depend, yeah, it depends on the particular circuit,

01:06:30.354 --> 01:06:32.954
but. Do you have any superstitions about

01:06:33.014 --> 01:06:37.694
what kind of meal you're having? Not really, no. I've never been a particularly superstitious person. You know, I don't

01:06:37.734 --> 01:06:38.994
have a, an order for my socks

01:06:39.034 --> 01:06:44.024
or something like that. Um-I, I, I don't think I really have one, to be honest

01:06:44.044 --> 01:06:45.224
with you. Favorite pre-race

01:06:45.264 --> 01:06:50.694
meal? Something, something- Do you see a lot of superstition? Do you see a lot of superstition, though, in that

01:06:50.724 --> 01:06:53.184
sport? Yeah, like in any changing room, I'm sure across.

01:06:53.204 --> 01:06:55.214
in any sport- Mm-hmm ... there'd be, there'd be talismans

01:06:55.264 --> 01:06:56.984
hanging off, off stuff, people who

01:06:57.024 --> 01:06:58.964
put their clothes on in a particular

01:06:59.044 --> 01:07:03.164
order. Yeah, I... uh, it's never been something I, I got into. I'm very organized

01:07:03.204 --> 01:07:07.024
about what was in my kit bag, but, not to, not to a point of, "Oh, dear, I put my

01:07:07.064 --> 01:07:10.064
left shoe on' before my right. It's gonna be a terrible day." Um,

01:07:11.404 --> 01:07:11.524
yeah.

01:07:12.124 --> 01:07:15.024
How about the most ridiculous training gadget that you've seen?

01:07:18.544 --> 01:07:18.844
Um,

01:07:22.184 --> 01:07:22.344
I've...

01:07:23.784 --> 01:07:26.044
I mean, quite frankly, any, any vibrating,

01:07:26.644 --> 01:07:29.064
uh, roller tool q- is, is ridiculous,

01:07:29.404 --> 01:07:32.004
uh, when it's marketed for, what it' is.

01:07:32.084 --> 01:07:37.264
Uh- Easy ... more like self-care tools than, than training tools. Yeah.

01:07:38.304 --> 01:07:44.484
Uh, usually I, I've seen someone with what looked like a bioelectrical impedance analysis machine, which was apparently reading,

01:07:45.764 --> 01:07:47.024
uh, muscle tension,

01:07:47.424 --> 01:07:52.104
blood type. You know, it, it' claimed to be doing unbelievable things for this person, and

01:07:52.184 --> 01:07:54.944
was, quite frankly, doing nothing than showing an old Game

01:07:55.004 --> 01:07:55.484
Boy screen.

01:07:56.084 --> 01:08:01.004
Um- If you think it works- Potentially ... it might work. Well, that's it. Exactly. Same thing in

01:08:01.044 --> 01:08:03.094
other superstitions. Um, ridiculous

01:08:03.094 --> 01:08:07.124
training machines. It, it work- it, it works if you're performing well. If you're not performing well, it doesn't

01:08:07.164 --> 01:08:07.364
work.

01:08:08.064 --> 01:08:10.144
Just like the, brain. That's it.

01:08:10.684 --> 01:08:11.064
That's it.

01:08:11.584 --> 01:08:11.964
Um, okay,

01:08:12.004 --> 01:08:15.044
last question here. One word to describe bobsleigh.

01:08:18.264 --> 01:08:18.363
Give

01:08:18.384 --> 01:08:21.844
you a few moments. Outrageous.

01:08:24.203 --> 01:08:24.944
Uncomfortable.

01:08:25.234 --> 01:08:29.044
One day. Outrageous and uncomfortable. Who wouldn't wanna

01:08:29.064 --> 01:08:31.044
try it? Well, exactly. I mean,

01:08:31.964 --> 01:08:35.064
you know, you think on, on any sport at a, at a high level, particularly

01:08:35.084 --> 01:08:35.694
a team sport,

01:08:36.524 --> 01:08:42.224
you know, I, I... there's not very much comfy about playing football. There's not very much comfy about playing rugby.

01:08:42.264 --> 01:08:43.964
It's cold, it's wet, someone's trying to rip

01:08:44.004 --> 01:08:44.404
your head off.

01:08:45.144 --> 01:08:46.064
Uh, this

01:08:46.124 --> 01:08:51.064
is the same kind of scenario. There's nothing comfy about it, but there's something in human nature

01:08:51.124 --> 01:08:54.104
which steers you towards stuff which is

01:08:55.363 --> 01:08:56.124
not healthy.

01:08:56.834 --> 01:08:59.064
For sure. We don't

01:08:59.084 --> 01:09:00.033
know why. We don't

01:09:00.064 --> 01:09:00.663
know why. We just, we just...

01:09:01.064 --> 01:09:01.863
No, we just do it.

01:09:03.184 --> 01:09:07.764
Absolutely. Chris, thank you so much for joining me on the Keiser Human Performance podcast today.

01:09:08.004 --> 01:09:09.184
Definitely appreciate you- My pleasure ... sharing

01:09:09.224 --> 01:09:12.424
your journey, some insights, some of your stories. Really fascinating.

01:09:12.794 --> 01:09:15.944
Like I said, you know, when we first got on, like, I really don't know much about this.

01:09:16.004 --> 01:09:19.104
Like you mentioned, a lot of people have seen Cool Runnings, and, you know, we see it on TV-

01:09:19.184 --> 01:09:25.014
Yeah ... but can never truly appreciate it. So, definitely have a newfound appreciation, and definitely looking forward to watching

01:09:25.044 --> 01:09:30.073
this more on TV. Um, for those looking to connect with Chris and stay up-to-date with his work,

01:09:30.144 --> 01:09:32.203
the best place to follow him is on Instagram.

01:09:32.544 --> 01:09:34.984
He's not gonna promise a bunch of content, but you can follow

01:09:35.004 --> 01:09:37.844
him on Instagram, @woolly_man.

01:09:38.764 --> 01:09:43.024
And thank you to our listeners for tuning in. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast, and

01:09:43.064 --> 01:09:45.524
also follow Keiser on Instagram @keiserfitness.

01:09:46.163 --> 01:09:49.104
Have a great day. Happy holidays. We'll see you next time. Chris, thank

01:09:49.144 --> 01:09:51.064
you so much. All the best. Thanks very

01:09:51.084 --> 01:09:56.244
much. We appreciate you tuning in to this episode of the Keiser Human Performance

01:09:56.344 --> 01:10:01.184
podcast. To stay up-to-date on all things Keiser, follow us @keiserfitness

01:10:01.484 --> 01:10:01.604
on

01:10:01.644 --> 01:10:03.084
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01:10:03.144 --> 01:10:06.924
Facebook. For more content, you can visit our Keiser Fitness YouTube

01:10:07.004 --> 01:10:11.084
page, and at our website, www.keiser.com.

01:10:11.664 --> 01:10:12.014
Thank you,

01:10:12.364 --> 01:10:13.244
and have a great day.