Phil Nash - Exos Coaching Education

In this two-part conversation, Phil Nash of EXOS Education breaks down what it takes to become an effective coach in today’s human performance landscape. From building confidence and mastering both soft and technical skills to creating positive training environments, Phil shares practical insights drawn from years of coaching and education.

The discussion also explores how feedback, reflection, and continuous refinement shape better program design and long-term success. Phil emphasizes that great coaching isn’t static — it’s an evolving process that requires adaptability, strong communication, and a commitment to learning in order to better serve athletes and clients.

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All right, welcome back to the Keiser Human 
Performance podcast. I have Phil Nash here

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from Exos Education. Phil, how are we doing today? 
Good, man. Can't complain. Thank you for having me

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on. Can you hold up that shirt for us? I want 
to I want to see that real quick. Be stoked.

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The Arizona T. Since I'm not in Arizona, this is a 
it's a rare find. It's a hard one to get. So, it's

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a it's a a hot commodity. Yeah, absolutely. So, 
we were just chatting offline here for a second

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about the Philadelphia Eagles. I have to know your 
take on the tush push. Where do you stand on that?

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I mean, obviously completely unbiased take on the 
tushbush that it's probably the most beautiful

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play in NFL history. I can't I can't think of 
anything that represents the city, that represents

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football more than a bunch of guys pushing one guy 
over a bunch of other guys. I think it's just it's

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a it's a perfect play. I wish they would do it 
on every down. I will have you know that my Bears

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stopped the tush bushes successfully actually 
ripping the ball out causing a fumble on it while

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running for over 200 yards against your Eagles. So 
it was a great listen at at our at our house too.

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So it was a tough a tough show. Yeah. Yeah. Had 
a nice Thanksgiving. So thank you. So all right.

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Well I'm excited to talk about education today. 
Obviously Exos, you know, some of the leaders in

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human performance education. So sitting down 
with you is an awesome way for me to learn,

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for our audience to learn a little bit more about 
how you guys do things. you've been very involved

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in the process. So, super excited to chat with you 
today. Maybe just to give somebody who's listening

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just a little bit of background on your role 
within Keiser might be within Exos, excuse me,

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might be some helpful context. Yeah. Yeah. I 
mean, I started Exos I think back in 2017. I

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bounced around within Exos a ton. I've worked on 
the corporate wellness side. I've worked on the

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sport performance side. So, had a a pretty cool 
path that's given me the opportunity to to train,

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you know, pro athletes or, you know, a 60-year-old 
guy who's trying to lose some weight before he

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gets his knee replaced like and everything in 
between. So, I think it's a a nice well-rounded

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unique experience that led me to working now on 
our education team that sits kind of within our

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innovation and methodology team. Um, and I've been 
doing this for the past 5 years. And basically,

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we handle all things education. So we'll help 
build courses that we sell externally like our you

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know phase one two and three inerson mentorships 
or like you know our digital courses that we come

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out with that anyone can access. Uh and then we 
do a lot of training for our coaches internally.

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So whether it's coaches who work in sport who 
are leading the combine prep right now or our

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coaches who are working with corporate wellness 
clients in you know companies around the world.

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It's a little bit of a mixed bag. Like sometimes 
it's like hey we got new Keiser equipment coming

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in and this is how we're going to roll it out. 
this is how you're going to use it to help get

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your clients ready or you know it might be here's 
some new software coming out and here's how you're

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going to use it right so it's kind of it's kind of 
running the full gambit but it's nice to have the

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opportunity to connect with coaches help them grow 
and ultimately like help them impact the people

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that they're working with every day yeah it's 
cool I mean you are really you know indirectly

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impacting the lives of so many different types of 
people you mentioned not just athletes right a lot

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of people know exos athletes performance but but 
the reach is so much wider you mentioned corporate

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you mentioned PT, um, things like that. So, 
pretty unique situation that you're sitting in,

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being able to impact so many lives, which I 
imagine is very cool. Yeah. And I don't think

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people understand fully the corporate reach. I 
know I didn't when I first joined Exos. Like,

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I knew I knew about the combine. I knew about 
NFL offseason prep and MLB offseason prep and

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and kind of things like that. But when I heard 
that Exos was running a fitness center in a

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company that was in my hometown, like five 
minutes from where I was born, I was like,

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what? like that doesn't that doesn't make any 
sense. And yeah, I mean we have on the corporate

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side probably thousands of coaches like over 
just over a thousand coaches um all over the

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world in in a ton of different you know fortune 
500, Fortune 100, 100 companies and so like the

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impact of people that are getting quality strength 
and conditioning is is really really high. So in

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terms of rolling out education I mean you are 
not just dealing with athletes and and coaches

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work with athletes but also everybody on the 
corporate side. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I we all

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like on the team we're we're a small and scrappy 
team we like to say but you know everyone kind of

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has their hands in different pots but yeah mine 
mine tends to be like 50/50ish 6040ish like it'll

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swing but I kind of sit in the middle and have a 
chance to do you know half my time working with

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the corporate staff half my time helping the sport 
staff. Cool. So we're going to talk more about how

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you do that. My question for you though before we 
get started is how do you define what is effective

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education in the human performance space? Yeah. 
And I you know looking at education as a whole

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I I don't think it's too dissimilar to how you 
might define effective education if you're like

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going through high school or you're in undergrad 
or you know in learning and development in in the

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corporate setting in a traditional company 
like it's all kind of this similar outcome.

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And the question that I always ask is like what 
are you doing differently now? Like what what have

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you changed about your process, your coaching, 
about what you do after going through a course,

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whether that's in person or digitally. That's the 
outcome that we're ultimately looking for. Like

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giving them the tools or giving them what they 
need to do something differently. And hopefully

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that different is going to be more effective or or 
maybe more efficient. So sometimes that might look

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like they're actually doing something completely 
new like we're talking about program design and

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now the way they think about evaluating the needs 
of their athletes and clients are different which

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leads them to writing differently as they're 
you know designing their their end programs or

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it could be just doing something with some more 
confidence which I think is is something that we

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see a lot you know we have a lot of a lot of newer 
coaches in the system and they might be doing the

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right thing, but there's a lot of noise out there 
and they're, you know, maybe uncertain about, you

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know, the way they're coaching a specific movement 
or the way they're pairing different exercises

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together. But then after going through the 
education, if they can be more confident in their

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delivery, more confident they're doing the right 
thing and they're doing right by their members,

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I think that's just as an important outcome that 
allows them to, you know, yes, on paper they're

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doing the same thing, but the way it's delivered 
is going to be way more effective. is going to get

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way more buy in because of the confidence they 
have behind the things that they're doing. So,

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what's an example of something that you're rolling 
out in education that can ultimately help a coach

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be more confident? Yeah, I think a lot of our 
introductory stuff will kind of hit a high level

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like here's the EXOS training system, you know, 
here's the Exos game plan, you know, we're doing

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things around sleep and fueling and training and 
reflection and a couple different areas. you know,

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here's the training system all the way from 
the warm-up and pillar prep and movement prep

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down through, you know, pio, strength and power, 
regen, all that stuff. So, the coaches start to

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get this understanding of like, all right, this 
is the training system. These are the components.

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Here's how they work together. But they're coming 
in with this awesome background, you know, whether

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it's from collegiate strength and conditioning or 
professional strength and conditioning or or from

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a personal training gym. So, they have kind of 
their own methodologies that they've developed

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and taken from other places that they've learned. 
So when they come through like we'll do in-person

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mentorships for coaches and it's like a week-long 
course come they come in and it's kind of like an

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introduction or reintroduction to the training 
system. So it's taking that the their basically

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onboarding materials and really blowing it out 
and going really deep into each bucket. And I

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think throughout that we have this opportunity to 
to actually basically talk shop with them and give

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them the opportunity to say like hey you know I'm 
understanding how you program or how we program

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for strength at Exos this way but I love this you 
know loading scheme or I love this periodization

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scheme and it's like yeah you can we can we can 
make it all work we can make it all fit and I

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think that's probably the biggest confidence 
builder for coaches when They realized that,

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you know, our methodology is meant to be a 
framework. It's meant to be almost like this

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way to organize anything that you might do in 
a way that empowers you to be more effective,

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that helps you modify what you're doing based 
on the constraints of your environment or the

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clients that you're working with. And that's 
probably the biggest thing for even new coaches,

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but especially the seasoned coaches. It's like 
they they go through the methodology, they come

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to a course like that where we get to talk shop 
in person and they can really feel like, oh, okay,

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like I'm not not doing Exos quote unquote, but I'm 
actually like I'm doing it to its fullest extent

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and you know what I'm doing makes sense. It has an 
intentional thought behind it. Yeah, I like what

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you mentioned there about having that framework 
in place and then being able to move within that

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framework and operate within methodologies or 
programming principles that you truly believe in,

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you've seen success with, but it's still under 
this entire framework of maybe how you operate

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as a coach. So, you mentioned program design. Do 
you have specific buckets when you're when you're

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sitting back and evaluating different areas in 
which coaches can improve? Do you have these

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different buckets like communication skills, 
program design, like what are those buckets? if

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you're nodding yes. So yeah, I'm curious to know 
what what those buckets are. Yeah, I think two big

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ones we I think we create a lot of dichotoies in 
the industry. I don't want to I don't want this to

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come across like a dichotomy, but it's like we 
split the the art of coaching into two buckets

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being the communication, relationship building, 
creating psychologically safe environments. one

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side and then the other side being like 
your understanding of the human body and

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your understanding of how adaptation occurs and 
your understanding of program design and your

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understanding of coaching movement kind of the the 
more kind of like looking at like soft skills and

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hard skills so to speak. So those are kind of the 
the two major ways that we like to bucket things.

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We'll have courses that are centered on, you 
know, either or or sometimes both. But like again,

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we know that both are equally important, right? 
Like we you need both to be an effective coach.

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So, how do you rate these different buckets 
in these different programs? Like you have

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psychological safety, like the ability to create a 
psychologically safe environment. That's something

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that's challenging to objectively score, right? 
So, how do you go about assessing that? Yeah,

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it is. It's hard to put a number to it and it's 
kind of like we've gone back and forth. We've

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tried different things as far as like do we keep 
it objective and have like a rating of one to

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three or is it subjective and we're just going off 
of vibes like the vibes are there. Can't explain

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it, but the vibes are great. So, you pass this 
round. So, I think more than more than anything,

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it's looking at it on an individualized and kind 
of case byase basis as much as possible and like

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looking at so like I'm evaluating you as a coach. 
I'm watching one of your sessions. I'm reviewing

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one of your programs. It's looking at your 
individual strengths and weaknesses relative to

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yourself. So, it's like, "All right, Gabe, looking 
at your program, this thing's beautiful." Like,

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you got the X's and O's down. I can see the 
vision. I can see the intent behind everything

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you're doing. I love the way you're pairing 
exercises. I love the way you're changing

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things based how on how the person in front of you 
is showing up during the session. Thank you. Yeah,

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crushing it. But on the other side, but on the 
other side, it's like, hey, we could work on,

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you know, how you build rapport, how you create 
relationships, you know, with your clients,

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with your athletes. So like keeping it relative to 
the person looking at the strengths and weaknesses

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makes it a little bit easier as far as like giving 
objective or giving feedback that that they can

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actually take and use and do something different 
with because it can be like I think anytime we try

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to score and go too too deep. It gets a little 
because there's always going to be a subjective

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nature to it. Yeah. Yeah. Um I'm only joking but 
I'm thinking about like hey Gabe we noticed when

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you dab athletes up like it's brutal. Like you 
really got to work on that. We got to work. It's

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not good. Vibes. The vibes weren't there at times. 
Your water cooler talk is bad. We got to clean up

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the vibes. You asked someone what they thought 
about the weather. Okay. So, these items that

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are more objective, right? Let's let's dip into 
the more hard skills. Understanding, adaptation,

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movement. Are those ranked more on performance 
and data collection from athletes, from clients?

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A little bit more now. Yeah, I'd say a little bit 
more now. It's definitely where the direction that

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we're trying to go is like what are the outcomes 
that we're getting from the program and then let's

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see let's look at the outcomes of the program and 
then let's take a critical look at the program and

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see basically what needs to stay in and what can 
be removed from the program. So that's something

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whether it's in the corporate environment or the 
sport environment that we're trying to dive into

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a lot more and and get more objective data from 
from our clients from our athletes on the outcomes

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from from program design. But I think there are 
buckets within that that again maybe a tiny bit

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more subjective but there are objective components 
to it like you know looking at how we're balancing

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work and rest throughout the program right like 
how are you waving intensity throughout the week

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throughout the month and then looking at results 
from monitoring how people are showing up. So what

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we call like functional state, you can think about 
it like daily readiness. Like looking at these

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three weeks of training, we have high low, we have 
high days, we have low days, we have medium days.

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Here's how the athletes are responding. If they're 
all smoke from the training, it's like, all right,

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cool. Now we know for whatever reason this loading 
strategy with this group did not work. It was a

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little bit too intense. So moving forward, we need 
to turn the dial down a little bit and change how

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we're power programming. So are you collecting 
feedback from the athletes or clients as well at

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the same time like on their on their experience? 
Trying to trying to as as best as possible. I

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think more so I think we do a better job of it 
on the corporate side like getting maybe not

0:14:02.400,0:14:10.560
getting the like outcomes all the time from every 
single phase of training. So like you know we gain

0:14:10.560,0:14:15.680
x% of strength across the group or we we added x 
inches to our vertical jump across the group. But

0:14:15.680,0:14:19.760
definitely in the corporate side, like getting the 
actual experience of like, hey, how much are you

0:14:19.760,0:14:24.640
enjoying the program? Knowing that like that's 
going to be a big part of like if you're not

0:14:24.640,0:14:29.040
bought in, if you're not enjoying the program, you 
might not come back, but also you're probably not

0:14:29.040,0:14:33.600
going to get into the same amount of adaptation 
as you would if you were enjoying the program,

0:14:33.600,0:14:38.240
right? And generally speaking, right? Generally 
speaking, cuz weekend warriors, bless them,

0:14:38.240,0:14:45.360
myself included, we have goals, right? But success 
performance-wise, adaptation wise, like my life

0:14:45.360,0:14:49.760
doesn't depend on if I'm able to hit a certain 
number like on a leg press or squat necessarily.

0:14:49.760,0:14:54.960
For an athlete though, like force production, 
power, speed, those things matter. Like those

0:14:54.960,0:15:00.000
metrics actually matter for their job and their 
livelihood. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, a thousand%.

0:15:00.000,0:15:06.240
That's that's why we're take the time and the 
resources to go through programs whether it's

0:15:06.240,0:15:11.840
like the combine program being a big one because 
it's more it's more closely related to something

0:15:11.840,0:15:17.680
like a stopwatch sport like track. So we get 
basically like we can see the objective outcomes

0:15:17.680,0:15:22.880
from hey this 6 to 8 weeks of training led to 
these results at the combine in these athletes. So

0:15:22.880,0:15:26.880
then that makes it way easier to say all right you 
know is it working is it not what do we need to

0:15:26.880,0:15:33.280
cut out what do we need to add in and we can see 
immediately the response now even taking it like

0:15:33.280,0:15:42.640
same sport different goal looking at NFL offseason 
going into the season now it's like well yes they

0:15:42.640,0:15:48.240
may have like did they get faster cool does that 
show up on the field maybe not so then the waters

0:15:48.240,0:15:54.320
get muddied even more right so yeah you layer on 
like the context of their actual sport, then their

0:15:54.320,0:15:59.760
role within the sport and then the role within, 
you know, their specific skill set. You know, it's

0:15:59.760,0:16:04.560
you can kind of go on and on and I I I can see how 
that get that can get kind of muddy. So, how often

0:16:04.560,0:16:10.400
are you revisiting and evaluating? Is there a 
cadence of like once a month, once a quarter? Like

0:16:10.400,0:16:16.160
is it different for different disciplines? Yeah, 
it's going to be a little bit different for where

0:16:16.160,0:16:22.720
you should like where you are in the company, like 
what what client you're serving. sport started

0:16:22.720,0:16:27.040
to almost quarterly go to different sites and and 
kind of see where they're at, see how the program

0:16:27.040,0:16:30.880
design is, see how well they're implementing new 
technology, see how well they're doing with new

0:16:30.880,0:16:36.720
assessment protocols and things like that. On the 
corporate side, like if they're a coach in the app

0:16:36.720,0:16:41.680
that we have and serving clients and delivering 
coach consults and programs, that's going to be

0:16:41.680,0:16:47.600
on a closer quarterly cadence as well. And then 
as far as like some of our kind of higher value

0:16:47.600,0:16:52.400
clients in the book of business, we're going to 
try to get to that a little bit more, have more

0:16:52.400,0:16:58.240
consistent conversations around programming. So 
it's almost more of a an ongoing dialogue than

0:16:58.240,0:17:07.280
it is uh you know a set assessment date. Got it. 
So in terms of these buckets, these soft skills,

0:17:07.280,0:17:13.680
hard skills, the things that you are assessing, 
how much input do the actual practitioners have

0:17:13.680,0:17:20.160
in determining what is important to evaluate? 
Yeah. All right. So you know, we'll have a

0:17:20.160,0:17:25.440
rubric so to speak like we'll have like these are 
the areas we're looking at. So within, you know,

0:17:25.440,0:17:31.200
the soft skills of communication, we're looking at 
how you lead the group and manage the group. we're

0:17:31.200,0:17:35.520
looking at how well you communicate and kind 
of own the room. We're looking at if you have

0:17:35.520,0:17:39.600
an individual moment with every single athlete or 
client in the group that you're training. And then

0:17:39.600,0:17:44.160
on the other side, if we're looking at like, you 
know, more of the the coaching and queuing within

0:17:44.160,0:17:50.000
that, looking at how well or how often you're 
giving verbal feedback or tactile feedback,

0:17:50.000,0:17:53.840
how well you're using constraints to try to change 
people's movement and things like how often you're

0:17:53.840,0:17:58.880
giving feedback relative to the complexity of 
the movement that you're doing. So there are,

0:17:58.880,0:18:03.040
you know, identified buckets that we're looking 
at and there are identified buckets that the

0:18:03.040,0:18:08.080
coaches know that we're looking at, but for 
for me specifically, like I'm always putting

0:18:08.080,0:18:13.040
them in the driver's seat first and and asking 
them, all right, like what do you think you did

0:18:13.040,0:18:19.360
well or what do you think you do well? What do you 
think you need to improve on? because, you know,

0:18:19.360,0:18:23.120
whether we're assessing them quarterly or once 
a year or maybe they're in in an environment

0:18:23.120,0:18:26.640
where they don't really get assessed and it's 
more their manager kind of watching them like

0:18:26.640,0:18:31.840
I think they need to have the ability to to 
reflect on their own performance, their own

0:18:31.840,0:18:36.720
coaching ability. Because if they can do that, if 
they can have this kind of this post reflection,

0:18:36.720,0:18:42.800
this retroactive reflection after each session, 
then you can basically assess yourself every day

0:18:42.800,0:18:47.760
and make some progress towards getting better as 
a coach in your weak areas every single day. So,

0:18:47.760,0:18:51.760
starting with that question of, hey, you know, 
what do you think you do well? What do you think

0:18:51.760,0:18:58.240
you need to improve upon and why? Starts to get 
the wheels turning for them. But it also lets me

0:18:58.240,0:19:03.120
know, you know, what do you care about? like what 
do you think is important and why do you think

0:19:03.120,0:19:08.640
that's important and I'm always I'm always open 
for that conversation because I'm not there with

0:19:08.640,0:19:13.840
their members every single day right so right I've 
worked with many people who work with groups of

0:19:13.840,0:19:19.040
engineers and they're just you know sitting behind 
a desk every day they love they love data they

0:19:19.040,0:19:25.760
love numbers they love nerding out and I'm like 
yo why are you breaking down collagen synthesis

0:19:25.760,0:19:30.000
and talking about like all this stuff when you're 
doing ISOs like what are we doing and they're like

0:19:30.000,0:19:36.560
yeah Oh, we love it. They love it. So, we're going 
to do it. Like, all right. Like, not what I would

0:19:36.560,0:19:40.560
think is effective, but it works. Whatever. Very 
helpful to think about. And I'm looking at this

0:19:40.560,0:19:45.280
and really it's kind of taking a step back and 
identifying, well, what even makes a good training

0:19:45.280,0:19:51.040
session, right? Like what are the key factors 
that make up a great training session? I think you

0:19:51.040,0:19:55.600
mentioned individual moments. I think we bucket 
that in the soft skills, right? So taking this a

0:19:55.600,0:20:01.120
step further, how did you come to the conclusion 
that that is an aspect of a training session that

0:20:01.120,0:20:06.080
matters? Like the having an individual moment 
people. Yeah, these things having an individual

0:20:06.080,0:20:11.040
moment. Um, of course queuing, right? We we all 
we can all agree that that matters, but something

0:20:11.040,0:20:16.880
like that, right? Like is there research behind 
that decision? Is it just years of, hey, this is

0:20:16.880,0:20:21.680
how we've done it and we've noticed that this has 
had an impact on people. Like why is that factor

0:20:21.680,0:20:27.280
important? Yeah, it's it's definitely be that 
twofold, right? Like some of it is going to be

0:20:27.280,0:20:34.000
research based. So like a lot of the coaching and 
queuing pieces are going to be based on research.

0:20:34.000,0:20:39.280
So more we've been spending time looking into and 
thinking about and implementing coaches coaching

0:20:39.280,0:20:43.520
through the constraints approach and understanding 
dynamic systems theory a little bit more and

0:20:43.520,0:20:48.320
allowing for inter- individual variability between 
movements and and and kind of like letting people

0:20:48.320,0:20:54.080
fail more and kind of things like that. There's 
also the kind of self-determination theory. One of

0:20:54.080,0:20:58.640
the major models that we'll we'll think about like 
is there autonomy in the session? Are we building

0:20:58.640,0:21:03.600
relatedness between you know me and the and the 
athletes and then the athletes and each other?

0:21:03.600,0:21:08.800
And then are we supporting people's competency? 
So basically, you know, not setting them up for

0:21:08.800,0:21:13.280
failure so much that they get frustrated and 
and you know, don't want to be a part of the

0:21:13.280,0:21:17.360
training because they're so frustrated with their 
performance. So like that stuff's going to be

0:21:17.360,0:21:22.720
pretty heavily rooted in in research whether it's 
motoral learning or or queuing or psychology. But

0:21:22.720,0:21:27.200
then there are some things like thinking back 
to what you know the founder Mark Stagan was

0:21:27.200,0:21:32.160
doing 30 years ago and that worked really well 
and that have continued to work really well and

0:21:32.160,0:21:37.360
things that you know in assessing what other 
similar companies or other coaches are doing

0:21:37.360,0:21:43.840
that we feel help differentiate us in the market a 
little bit. It's like the individual moments piece

0:21:43.840,0:21:49.120
comes from years of experience and just our own 
practical lived experience like you know you're

0:21:49.120,0:21:54.160
in a class and you know I've I've been to many a 
CrossFit gym many Orange Theory gym and like you

0:21:54.160,0:21:56.960
know you feel like you're in the session and like 
you feel like you don't really get coached at all

0:21:56.960,0:22:00.720
and you see other people getting coaches getting 
coached and it like doesn't really feel great but

0:22:00.720,0:22:05.520
if you have that moment you know coach comes up 
to you connects with you gives you some feedback

0:22:05.520,0:22:09.520
like that's great you know you're improving it's 
getting better you know whatever it might be like

0:22:09.520,0:22:15.840
having that moment every session one, yeah, it 
builds related, but two, it just like feels good,

0:22:15.840,0:22:19.920
you know? It's one of those things as a as a human 
to be seen, be heard, like things like that that

0:22:19.920,0:22:24.080
just feel good, you know, saying people's names in 
the session. We have someone on our team who are

0:22:24.080,0:22:30.800
like get really obsessive over the music and we'll 
like hammer coaches that the music's bad. I've

0:22:30.800,0:22:36.400
seen that. Yeah. And it's like it's like one of 
those things where yes, there's research on how,

0:22:36.400,0:22:41.760
you know, whatever rock music, rap music might 
improve performance, but it's just like goes

0:22:41.760,0:22:46.960
back to the subjective vibes piece. Like, can 
you can you nail the vibes of the class where

0:22:46.960,0:22:52.640
everyone they want to be there, they're having 
a good time, but they're also training hard. So,

0:22:52.640,0:22:57.520
I think some of that stuff's going to come through 
the lived experience. And again, it's going to be

0:22:57.520,0:23:02.480
different from group to group. And I something 
I always challenge coaches is to kind of qualify

0:23:02.480,0:23:06.960
the groups that they're working with. Like are 
you working with a group of proathletes who love

0:23:06.960,0:23:11.760
getting after it? Are you working with a group of 
new trainees in a corporate environment who are a

0:23:11.760,0:23:16.160
little bit nervous? I'm here with Phil Nash, the 
manager of performance learning and development at

0:23:16.160,0:23:23.600
Exos. Pivoting to maybe onboarding new equipment, 
testing, assessment protocols. What is your

0:23:23.600,0:23:30.560
process for evaluating a new product? I mean, we 
could even use Keiser as an example if you'd like

0:23:30.560,0:23:34.240
or you can choose a different one. But I'm curious 
to know what that process is like. Obviously,

0:23:34.240,0:23:38.880
that's a big part too of everything when you bring 
in new equipment, there's new capabilities. Well,

0:23:38.880,0:23:44.720
you also have to roll out a system of education 
for that as well. Yeah. Yeah. Keiser is probably

0:23:44.720,0:23:50.320
the perfect example like one because it's it's 
something we rolled out at scale across the entire

0:23:50.320,0:23:54.640
book of business and kind of like revamped 
our education on and I think it's because

0:23:54.640,0:24:00.080
of the process, right? Like and I think about it 
similarly to like if you went to a conference or

0:24:00.080,0:24:03.840
you're reading a book or you're going through a 
course and you're trying to identify how you're

0:24:03.840,0:24:08.240
going to take this new methodology or this 
new understanding and implement it into your

0:24:08.240,0:24:14.640
program. I think first and foremost it's trying 
to understand the ins and outs of let's say like

0:24:14.640,0:24:20.080
you know getting new A400 monitors on like leg 
press being a new piece of equipment or triple

0:24:20.080,0:24:23.360
trainers in a corporate environment that never 
had them before as a new piece of equipment.

0:24:23.360,0:24:27.760
And I literally got an email a second ago about 
someone who just got it was like hey what do I do?

0:24:27.760,0:24:33.600
So understanding like all right what is this piece 
of equipment for? What can it do? What are its

0:24:33.600,0:24:39.680
capabilities? And I think even for me who have you 
has used Keiser at a lot of the facilities that

0:24:39.680,0:24:44.960
I worked at like when we started to think about 
this education and think about how we might use it

0:24:44.960,0:24:50.160
differently like diving back into the difference 
between mass and pneumatics and being like wow

0:24:50.160,0:24:53.680
like there's a lot of things in here that I wish 
that I understood better as a coach because I

0:24:53.680,0:24:58.080
would have done it differently. So I think that's 
the positives of you know the top down approach

0:24:58.080,0:25:02.800
that we have at Exos at times where it's like you 
know we have the team dedicated to methodology

0:25:02.800,0:25:08.320
and dedicated to sports science and dedicated to 
education so we can really take the time get super

0:25:08.320,0:25:13.200
deep in the weeds and and really understand you 
know what is this piece of equipment what is this

0:25:13.200,0:25:18.080
piece of technology do and then we can really 
start to experiment. I think that's probably

0:25:18.080,0:25:25.760
something that's often missed from coaches is like 
just being open to experimenting, playing around,

0:25:25.760,0:25:29.680
trying different things, seeing how it feels, 
seeing how you respond to the training,

0:25:29.680,0:25:34.320
actually taking the model out of the box. Like, 
you know, it's like, hey, if we do, you know,

0:25:34.320,0:25:38.320
load velocity profile this way, we should get 
this outcome. What if we did it this way? Like,

0:25:38.320,0:25:42.880
what what what's different? What's better? What's 
worse? If we try to have a standardized warm-up

0:25:42.880,0:25:47.200
for a protocol, what's different? What's better? 
What's worse? like whatever it might be, really

0:25:47.200,0:25:53.600
being open to experimentation. But then again, I 
think there's got to be a bottom up aspect to the

0:25:53.600,0:25:59.600
education as well. So like, hey, I'm not in the 
gym every single day working with groups. You are.

0:25:59.600,0:26:05.360
I need you to to experiment with this equipment as 
well and see like does it make sense practically,

0:26:05.360,0:26:11.360
which is probably the biggest limiter for a lot of 
things. Like if it doesn't make sense practically,

0:26:11.360,0:26:14.960
then it doesn't matter how good the research is. 
Like it's just not going to go. it's not going

0:26:14.960,0:26:20.080
to work. So, you know, having a bit of top down 
where we're in the weeds, understanding the ins

0:26:20.080,0:26:24.320
and outs, having the bottom up where it's like 
practically this makes sense, this doesn't make

0:26:24.320,0:26:29.520
sense. Now, we have a two-way conversation so that 
when we go to scale it, our starting points a lot

0:26:29.520,0:26:34.240
better. Like it makes a lot more sense. It's like 
especially for assessment, it's like here's what

0:26:34.240,0:26:39.120
we need to do, the non-negotiables to get good 
quality consistent data from something like a load

0:26:39.120,0:26:45.280
velocity profile on a Keiser squat. here's what 
we've learned from some practical experimentation.

0:26:45.280,0:26:51.200
Put those two things together and that becomes our 
our starting point as education goes. But we're

0:26:51.200,0:26:57.680
always looking to refine our education. So it's 
like, hey, we learned from a coach on the field or

0:26:57.680,0:27:03.440
coach in the field that like, you know, they've 
been doing eight reps instead of five on the

0:27:03.440,0:27:08.160
load velocity profile and they're getting better 
results. Cool. Let's try it out. Let's add it in.

0:27:08.880,0:27:18.080
So is there a duty to report back to you and your 
team or do you have key coaches or practitioners

0:27:18.080,0:27:23.840
around the world country that are responsible 
for experimentation before then rolling out?

0:27:23.840,0:27:29.600
How does that work? Yeah, generally we'll have 
some kind of key people called out who we who

0:27:29.600,0:27:33.680
want to to roll out and experiment with. Like it's 
definitely something that we did when Jenny Norles

0:27:33.680,0:27:38.320
was running Keiser, our Keiser partnership, 
like immediately identified some key folks

0:27:38.320,0:27:43.520
who were super into it, excited about it, and 
they became the ones who were reporting back.

0:27:43.520,0:27:49.600
When I'm thinking about, you know, we we created 
a a sport science course a couple of years ago.

0:27:49.600,0:27:53.360
It's like mostly centered around sport science 
and assessment and how you use data and rolling

0:27:53.360,0:27:57.280
it out on the corporate side. There were a couple 
coaches there that I was like, "Hey, I need y'all

0:27:57.280,0:28:01.760
to be the ones kind of championing this and and 
reporting back." So when you do a movement screen

0:28:01.760,0:28:07.200
with your clients and do it on 20 clients like 
let's see is it feasible is it practical is the

0:28:07.200,0:28:12.160
data valuable how can you use it right? So I 
think generally calling those coaches out from

0:28:12.160,0:28:18.400
the start that way they have a seat at the table 
is is generally the starting point. How long does

0:28:18.400,0:28:24.320
a process like that take though to work through 
the kinks to evaluate until you can confidently

0:28:24.320,0:28:30.640
say hey this is viable this is practical? a 
while. Sometimes it takes a while. I think uh

0:28:30.640,0:28:36.320
I don't know tight timelines aren't always a bad 
thing like that kind of force our hand. Like there

0:28:36.320,0:28:40.000
are some times in the year that really force our 
hand. That's one of the nice things about the the

0:28:40.000,0:28:45.840
corporate side is like we can take forever. There 
there are some things that are ongoing for you

0:28:45.840,0:28:50.640
know a year like we've been working with a group 
doing ESD or conditioning assessments like doing

0:28:50.640,0:28:55.040
maximum aerobic speed and max output assessments 
and we've just been kind of going back and forth

0:28:55.040,0:28:59.520
for almost a year now just kind of like tweaking 
things refining things tinkering with it because

0:28:59.520,0:29:04.400
there's no real hard timeline to it so we can 
take our time and make something really good

0:29:04.400,0:29:11.120
whereas you know if it's like hey it's October 
and we have combine coming up in two months like

0:29:11.120,0:29:16.480
we have two months to to figure this thing out 
and design and build education for it. So in

0:29:16.480,0:29:21.440
that in that instance, we got to sprint a little 
bit harder. But anytime we have a tight timeline,

0:29:21.440,0:29:27.920
it's like that becomes the primary focus of like 
how can we get as much valuable info as we can.

0:29:27.920,0:29:33.520
But then even after the program like so say Ronok 
Keiser for combine last year, two months, three

0:29:33.520,0:29:38.640
months to do it, combine happens and then we start 
the process again right there where it's like what

0:29:38.640,0:29:44.160
did we learn? Like I think that's probably the 
through line through all of the things that we

0:29:44.160,0:29:49.440
do at Exos, whether it's education, whether it's 
program design and coaching, the ability to take

0:29:49.440,0:29:54.160
a step back, have some retroactive reflection, 
and try to refine what you're doing, knowing that

0:29:54.160,0:29:59.680
there's always going to be a way that we can tweak 
it and make it better. So like I look at education

0:29:59.680,0:30:05.680
as this ongoing process. Like there's not a kind 
of finite like start and stop point. It's we can

0:30:05.680,0:30:10.320
always make it better. We can always communicate 
better. we can always change our process or change

0:30:10.320,0:30:17.760
our protocols. And so I think with that in mind, 
it helps us it helps us truly make like the best

0:30:17.760,0:30:24.960
possible outcomes. Absolutely. Oh, that's well 
said. And I think you had mentioned previously

0:30:24.960,0:30:31.280
when when we were chatting before this just 
the idea of rolling out education in phases,

0:30:31.280,0:30:35.680
right? Like phase one, phase 2, phase three. 
Maybe some education courses are built that way.

0:30:35.680,0:30:40.800
Why have you chosen to do things that way? And 
why has that been proven to be successful? Yeah,

0:30:40.800,0:30:46.080
I mean some so some of it is like you know 
happened or had been happening long before

0:30:46.080,0:30:51.280
me and before I before I'm in the role that I'm 
in now. But you know the reason that I stick with

0:30:51.280,0:30:55.520
the kind of structure we have is because like 
you said like it's it's been successful. It's

0:30:55.520,0:31:00.560
been effective for a lot of coaches in a lot of 
different a lot of different areas. I think for me

0:31:00.560,0:31:06.560
I think back to like when I first started in this 
role and I was so excited like I love training. I

0:31:06.560,0:31:11.440
love learning. I love teaching and I remember the 
first couple courses, the first couple, you know,

0:31:11.440,0:31:15.840
either virtual or inerson sessions I had with 
with individual coaches or groups of coaches

0:31:15.840,0:31:20.480
really leaning into the nuance and really leaning 
into the it depends and getting the feedback that

0:31:20.480,0:31:24.640
they were like, "Yo, we don't know what to 
do." Like Phil just kind of came in and said,

0:31:24.640,0:31:29.520
"It depends a bunch and I don't know. You tell 
me." And we didn't learn anything. And I was like,

0:31:29.520,0:31:36.400
"Oh." I think the way we structure it now is like 
basically starting with these these kind of models

0:31:36.400,0:31:41.440
that coaches can take and use immediately where 
it's like you know you come to phase one and we

0:31:41.440,0:31:45.120
we talk about movement and we talk about how 
we understand it at EXOS and we talk about the

0:31:45.120,0:31:50.000
training system and basically say like you know 
you can periodize your program this way and you

0:31:50.000,0:31:54.800
kind of start from you know building capacity and 
focusing on movement efficiency and then over time

0:31:54.800,0:31:59.520
you progress to you know try to improve some sort 
of output whether it's you know strength output or

0:31:59.520,0:32:03.680
or you know the rate that you're producing 
for us or whatever it might be. You know,

0:32:03.680,0:32:07.440
we talk about the training system and basically 
going in this process like you do the stuff in

0:32:07.440,0:32:14.640
this order and that's how you do it. And then over 
time we slowly kind of peel the guard rails back

0:32:14.640,0:32:19.280
and like not that there's there's always going 
to be nuance and injected into what we're doing,

0:32:19.280,0:32:25.200
but it's kind of like starting with hey do this 
first. Like it's not perfect, but it's going to

0:32:25.200,0:32:29.600
be really really useful. Like if you're designing 
a program for the GEM pop or an athlete and you

0:32:29.600,0:32:34.400
go from a foundational phase to a hypertrophy 
phase to a strength phase to a power phase, like

0:32:34.400,0:32:37.840
they're probably going to get better and they're 
they're probably going to work towards whatever

0:32:37.840,0:32:42.640
it is their goal that they're working for is. 
But then over time as they come through courses,

0:32:42.640,0:32:47.520
as we connect with them more, the guardrails 
get pulled off, the layers get pulled back.

0:32:47.520,0:32:52.000
So it's like you start with this foundational 
understanding, this foundational knowledge,

0:32:52.000,0:32:56.240
and then over time you get better and better and 
better. So you get to the point where it's like

0:32:56.240,0:33:01.920
you can truly adapt what you're doing to the 
people in front of you. And that's kind of how

0:33:01.920,0:33:07.360
our education structure is built, right? Like 
it starts foundational, peel back the layers,

0:33:07.360,0:33:14.000
then it really puts the the power in the coach's 
hand. Got it. Another question for you. How do you

0:33:14.000,0:33:18.320
handle disagreement? you know, when when you and 
a practitioner who's on the ground working with

0:33:18.320,0:33:22.880
athletes or a member of your team or just anybody 
says, "No, I really think this is the better way

0:33:22.880,0:33:28.000
to go about things." I mean, you obviously can't 
agree all the time, right? Yeah. So, how do you go

0:33:28.000,0:33:35.600
about handling disagreement? my my manager who 
hired me or in my interview that was uh one of

0:33:35.600,0:33:40.640
the questions in the interview and I bombed it and 
people still give me a hard time for it but he was

0:33:40.640,0:33:45.840
like if you're I think at the time I was 27 when I 
was hired so he's like if you're you know teaching

0:33:45.840,0:33:49.200
a course and you have a 50-year-old strength coach 
who's like worked in professional sport and he's

0:33:49.200,0:33:55.760
like I don't agree with you what are you going to 
say and I was like okay cool I don't know I don't

0:33:55.760,0:34:02.000
have an answer for that but no it's part of me is 
you you must have crushed watched every other part

0:34:02.000,0:34:06.560
of that interview. I had to have cuz it was bad. 
That was not that was that was the low that was a

0:34:06.560,0:34:10.480
low light for me on that one. But no, I think like 
honestly some of it for me is like taking a step

0:34:10.480,0:34:17.840
back and being like in most instances I get for I 
get that the stakes are way higher in pro sport,

0:34:17.840,0:34:24.960
but in a lot of instances like let's take a 
step back. It's not that deep. Like it's not

0:34:24.960,0:34:29.040
life or death in a lot of in a lot of cases. Like 
we're talking about strength and conditioning.

0:34:29.040,0:34:33.120
Let's be real here for a moment. But I think 
trying to really understand where they're coming

0:34:33.120,0:34:39.680
from and like why they're disagreeing. So, you 
know, trying to ask questions. I think for me,

0:34:39.680,0:34:45.040
I'm always trying to be curious. Like I've had 
many of disagreements. So, I always approach it

0:34:45.040,0:34:50.480
from like not a place of like I'm right and you're 
wrong or like I'm I'm always very open that I do

0:34:50.480,0:34:56.240
not have all the answers and I cannot and do not 
know everything. So, like I want to know where

0:34:56.240,0:35:01.440
you're coming from. I want to seek to understand 
your perspective. Is it based in research? Is

0:35:01.440,0:35:07.200
it based in your practical lived experience? You 
know, do you have good points? And then hopefully,

0:35:07.200,0:35:13.920
I think generally that opens the door for them 
to do the same. Not that it's always a a perfect

0:35:13.920,0:35:18.160
world, but you know, sometimes there's going to 
be like, hey, I know you don't agree. Let's try it

0:35:18.160,0:35:22.800
and see what happens. And if it doesn't work, we 
can change it. Yeah. Sometimes people just want to

0:35:22.800,0:35:27.120
be heard, right? It's a very different experience 
to say you disagree with something or to hear

0:35:27.120,0:35:30.720
somebody out say, "Okay, I understand the value in 
that. I understand why you're thinking this way. I

0:35:30.720,0:35:34.240
think we're still going to go in this direction." 
You know, however, like I can appreciate where

0:35:34.240,0:35:37.120
you're coming from with that. It's a very 
different experience for the person proposing a

0:35:37.120,0:35:42.320
new idea. Yeah. And G and giving them giving them 
the platform to be heard. But I think often times

0:35:42.320,0:35:47.440
we can find the similarities and the commonalities 
like you know hey like we're we're agreeing on

0:35:47.440,0:35:55.040
you know 95% of the stuff here and this is the 
the kind of 5% where there's a gap between our

0:35:55.040,0:35:59.600
thought processes like I think that's also helpful 
for them to see like all right like maybe I don't

0:35:59.600,0:36:04.720
totally agree you know with everything but for the 
most part I I think it's a it's a quality idea or

0:36:04.720,0:36:09.520
a quality protocol or whatever it might be that 
we're talking about. As you take a step back and

0:36:09.520,0:36:13.760
evaluate everything you're doing from an education 
standpoint, imagine sometimes you sit there and

0:36:13.760,0:36:19.600
say like, "Do we need to scrap all of this and 
just do it a different way?" Yes. You're trying

0:36:19.600,0:36:25.120
to constantly evolve. As you said, education is 
constantly like evolving, right? Like it's fair to

0:36:25.120,0:36:29.200
question the way you do things, even if it's been 
repeated for a long period of time. You had a lot

0:36:29.200,0:36:35.120
of success. So, is there something that you're 
thinking about a certain way about doing things

0:36:35.120,0:36:41.200
that you're curious about now? It might be part of 
the future that you're excited to maybe roll out

0:36:41.200,0:36:45.840
like is there anything that you're thinking 
about about how we can do this differently?

0:36:45.840,0:36:54.160
Yeah, I think more bottoms up stuff like more 
bottoms up learnings that that kind of make

0:36:54.160,0:36:59.360
their way up into our methodology that we then 
scale like again having you know a thousand plus

0:36:59.360,0:37:04.080
coaches in different environments around the world 
like we have a lot of awesome practitioners doing

0:37:04.080,0:37:10.320
really cool stuff with their clients. So I think 
the the stuff that really excites me is again

0:37:10.320,0:37:16.320
like coming from a place of curiosity, going out 
into the field, you know, breaking bread, talking

0:37:16.320,0:37:21.200
shop with coaches and seeing what they're doing, 
like what's working, what's not working, you know,

0:37:21.200,0:37:24.960
what's allowing you to be successful. you know, 
if you're on the corporate side and you know, your

0:37:24.960,0:37:29.200
clients love you and you're you're constantly, you 
know, doing really well on the personal training

0:37:29.200,0:37:32.960
front and you're, you know, getting great 
results from your program and and you know,

0:37:32.960,0:37:38.240
have a great community in your facility, like 
what's what about what you're doing is working.

0:37:38.240,0:37:43.280
What can we steal from you and scale to everyone 
else? You know, on the sports side, it's like,

0:37:43.280,0:37:46.800
you know, athletes love coming in. They're coming 
back year over year. They're constantly making

0:37:46.800,0:37:50.240
great improvements. They're constantly staying 
healthy throughout the season. Like, what are

0:37:50.240,0:37:56.880
you doing differently? what's working, what can we 
steal and scale. So I think you know historically

0:37:56.880,0:38:02.480
it's not it's not unique to Exos but it's a lot of 
organizations like things come from the top down

0:38:02.480,0:38:06.640
and sometimes they have to right because again 
we have the time and the bandwidth to get deep

0:38:06.640,0:38:11.440
in the weeds and and fully understand what we're 
rolling out but you know some of the stuff that

0:38:11.440,0:38:16.080
we've seen with what coaches are are using Keiser 
for like you know doing different movements or or

0:38:16.080,0:38:20.720
different pairings on a triple trainer or a rack 
or whatever it might be like yeah that's awesome

0:38:20.720,0:38:26.800
let's take that and steal that. Yeah. But for 
me, it's allowing the the bottoms up stuff to to

0:38:26.800,0:38:32.960
come to life a little bit more. How many training 
sessions have you observed? A lot. I know. I know

0:38:32.960,0:38:40.240
it is a lot and not an exact number, but but the 
reason I asked this is you've seen so much, right?

0:38:40.240,0:38:45.440
You've seen so many sessions. If you were to like 
boil it down to here are the key things that make

0:38:45.440,0:38:50.400
for a great training session, right? regardless 
of if these are athletes, regardless of this is

0:38:50.400,0:38:56.400
corporate clients, like if you could boil it down 
to three basic things, what would they be? Yeah,

0:38:56.400,0:39:03.200
I think first one is meeting the people where 
they are. So trying to whether it's objectively

0:39:03.200,0:39:09.280
through wearable data, jump testing, sleep scores, 
whatever, or subjectively like, you know, hey,

0:39:09.280,0:39:12.480
how are you feeling today? How's your energy 
today? What's your training willingness today?

0:39:12.480,0:39:18.080
like trying to understand the person in front of 
you and how they're showing up today physically,

0:39:18.080,0:39:23.520
you know, cognitively, psychologically. Like 
if you can understand that and change things

0:39:23.520,0:39:29.440
on the fly, not only are you going to provide 
a a better stimulus for them in that moment and

0:39:29.440,0:39:34.720
ultimately like lead to better adaptations in the 
long term, but I think there's just a big piece

0:39:34.720,0:39:40.720
in there from a relationship management standpoint 
that's like, you know, this coach genuinely cares

0:39:40.720,0:39:46.880
about me as a person. Like they want the best 
for me and I feel that every single day. Like I

0:39:46.880,0:39:54.000
think that's a a massive a massive element to it. 
From there getting into you know how you coach,

0:39:54.000,0:40:01.760
how you communicate. I think providing autonomy 
is a big piece. So finding ways to pro provide

0:40:01.760,0:40:07.200
appropriate amounts of autonomy and also making 
the the athlete, the client a part of the training

0:40:07.200,0:40:13.840
process, a part of the learning process and not 
always just giving them the answers, but you know,

0:40:13.840,0:40:18.480
can you ask ask them how a movement felt or ask 
them how they think they did on a on a on a rep

0:40:18.480,0:40:23.520
of, you know, a flying 10 or whatever it is. You 
know, bring them to the table, make them a part of

0:40:23.520,0:40:28.560
the learning process. you know, help educate them, 
help them grow, and help them understand their own

0:40:28.560,0:40:34.320
body and their own performance. That's massive. 
And then the third one, going back to the vibes,

0:40:34.320,0:40:40.320
has to be something vibes related. Like I and 
again, for me personally and and some of what

0:40:40.320,0:40:45.760
we do in education, like yes, training can be 
serious. Yes, training can be and is hard and

0:40:45.760,0:40:51.920
intense, but I think the environment that we 
create should be fun and welcoming and creating

0:40:51.920,0:40:56.560
a space that people want to be in. So, you know, 
when I'm looking at the environment that coaches

0:40:56.560,0:41:02.480
create, like simply, is it a is it a space? 
Is it a place that the members, the athletes,

0:41:02.480,0:41:05.920
they want to be in? They're hanging out after 
the session. They're coming in early if they can.

0:41:05.920,0:41:11.440
Like, you can tell they genuinely love it and they 
genuinely want to be there and they're bought into

0:41:11.440,0:41:16.880
the process. They're bought into the coach. Like, 
if you can check those three boxes, even if the

0:41:16.880,0:41:21.600
program's less than perfect, like, you're going to 
get incredible outcomes. That's awesome. So, I'm

0:41:21.600,0:41:25.920
recapping because I loved your answers. I really 
did. Number one, meeting people where they're at,

0:41:25.920,0:41:29.040
providing autonomy, and then just creating an 
environment. And that environment can change

0:41:29.040,0:41:33.200
depending on, you know, the time of season and 
time of year, how many people are there. I know

0:41:33.200,0:41:36.800
we've probably felt victim to it. Just like you 
kind of get that feeling after a session where

0:41:36.800,0:41:41.360
everyone's just hanging out still and you have 
no idea how much time passed, right? Yeah. Yeah.

0:41:41.360,0:41:45.680
Exactly. And it's like it's a great it's a space 
you want to be in. Like, you know, if I'm if I'm a

0:41:45.680,0:41:51.200
client in a gym, like that's the space that I want 
to be in. Yeah. Absolutely. So, okay. So, a couple

0:41:51.200,0:41:55.280
questions here to wrap up and I really appreciate 
your time. So, thank you so much. For any coach

0:41:55.280,0:42:00.560
that's listening who wants to grow but feels 
maybe overwhelmed by the amount of information

0:42:00.560,0:42:05.760
out there, what advice would you give them on how 
to maybe be more intentional with their education?

0:42:05.760,0:42:11.120
Yeah. No, there's a lot out there. That's a great 
question. I think one thing that I always talk

0:42:11.120,0:42:16.080
about especially like a phase one mentorship or 
like you know when I'm onboarding coaches at a

0:42:16.080,0:42:21.200
at a new site or you know they're they're new 
to the system is the the noise filter and the

0:42:21.200,0:42:28.000
relationship between signal and noise like I mean 
5 years ago 10 years ago because of social media

0:42:28.000,0:42:34.080
there was already too much noise like access to 
information is not the issue anymore which is on

0:42:34.080,0:42:39.920
one hand is a is a great problem to have like I'm 
sure you also remember like surfing bodybuilding

0:42:39.920,0:42:44.480
forums and like getting information from some like 
weird dude on the internet about how you should

0:42:44.480,0:42:53.600
cycle. Still do still do. It's out there. Still 
exists. Thank goodness. But like now with where

0:42:53.600,0:42:59.280
social media is and how big of a market, you know, 
strength and conditioning and fitness and health

0:42:59.280,0:43:05.120
is and now with like entering this age of AI, 
like information and and a ton of information is

0:43:05.120,0:43:09.600
at everybody's fingertips. So for a coach, that's 
one thing I really like about, you know, how we

0:43:09.600,0:43:14.800
set up our education and our training system and 
our methodology in general is like it acts as this

0:43:14.800,0:43:20.080
this filter for all the noise. It helps them 
organize the things that they're learning or

0:43:20.080,0:43:26.800
the things that they might be doing. So, you know, 
with the the amount of noise in mind, I think it's

0:43:26.800,0:43:31.760
remembering that like no one's going to have 
all the answers. No one can know everything.

0:43:32.400,0:43:37.680
There's a lot more out there that's going 
to be designed to to maybe be a little bit

0:43:37.680,0:43:43.680
contrarian and and you know they're people are 
designing their education and their ideas for

0:43:43.680,0:43:47.920
the algorithm and not so much for the coach or for 
the the athletes or the clients that the coaches

0:43:47.920,0:43:55.360
might be working with. So, you know, with that in 
mind, it's it's being open to to trying things,

0:43:55.360,0:44:00.400
being open to experimentation, being open to 
refining, and again, always coming back to

0:44:00.400,0:44:06.000
like who you're actually working with. Like, who 
is the person in front of me? What do they want

0:44:06.000,0:44:12.080
to do? Where are they at right now? Where's the 
gap? How can I close that gap? Like, if you can

0:44:12.080,0:44:16.640
keep that m in mind with everything you do, like 
there's stuff that I'll learn or see on social

0:44:16.640,0:44:20.480
media or a course I'll take. And I'm like, man, 
that's really interesting. I'll probably never use

0:44:20.480,0:44:25.840
that. But it was it was a fun thing to learn. Like 
I I feel like I I learned a little bit. It was a

0:44:25.840,0:44:30.880
great experience. Whatever. But when it comes back 
to like is this going to help me help a coach? Is

0:44:30.880,0:44:36.240
this going to help a coach help their member? Like 
if you can keep that main thing in mind the entire

0:44:36.240,0:44:42.720
time, that makes the stuff that you're consuming 
a lot easier to digest. It's like that's your

0:44:42.720,0:44:47.360
filter. It's like, cool. Hey, that thing that that 
post that that guy put out was super interesting.

0:44:48.400,0:44:52.480
probably doesn't make sense for my clients. 
Maybe it makes sense for a client on the road,

0:44:52.480,0:44:57.120
but I'm just going to stay solely focused on who's 
in front of me. 100% agree. I mean, at the end of

0:44:57.120,0:45:00.400
the day, it's what ultimately is going to help 
you provide the most value for the people that

0:45:00.400,0:45:04.720
you're working with, right? Because if you're able 
to provide value that makes you more valuable,

0:45:04.720,0:45:09.200
right? And that depends on your environment 
for sure. If you're in the private sector,

0:45:09.200,0:45:14.640
it's a different ballgame than working in a 
team organization, right? 100%. Okay. Hey,

0:45:14.640,0:45:20.000
so if anyone wants to learn more, check out the 
educational resources that Exos has. Where do

0:45:20.000,0:45:25.600
they go? Yeah. So, you look us on Instagram, Exo 
Education. All of our stuff will be on there.

0:45:25.600,0:45:31.280
Website, everything. Exoslearning.com. Have 
all our stuff in there. Yeah. Phase one, two,

0:45:31.280,0:45:35.920
and three mentorships in person. We have our 
performance specialist, fitness specialists,

0:45:35.920,0:45:41.680
courses online. Yeah. I think we'll throw a little 
couple discount codes in the in the show notes for

0:45:41.680,0:45:46.000
for folks who are interested in learning more from 
Exos. But yeah, I think you know starting with the

0:45:46.000,0:45:50.000
phase one mentorship, starting with performance 
specialist certification again like that's that's

0:45:50.000,0:45:55.920
the the framework, right? That's the the noise 
filter for you that that base to allow you to

0:45:55.920,0:45:59.840
organize everything you're doing, everything 
you're learning and and you know help you better

0:45:59.840,0:46:05.920
make decisions. I think that's a invaluable 
starting point for people. Love it. Phil,

0:46:05.920,0:46:10.400
thank you so much. I really appreciate it. As 
he mentioned, you can go ahead and check out

0:46:10.400,0:46:16.880
their website, exoslearn.inspire360.com. Also, 
check them out. Exoseducation Instagram. There

0:46:16.880,0:46:21.280
are some discount codes that we will throw into 
the show notes if you're listening. Keiser 25

0:46:21.280,0:46:29.040
will get you 25% off digital products. Live 2026 
will get you 250 off in-person mentorships. Phil,

0:46:29.040,0:46:32.960
we got a big game this weekend. We got the Super 
Bowl. I need a prediction from you. I'm I'm going

0:46:32.960,0:46:37.600
Hawks by 10. I'm feeling good. I'm feeling good 
about Sam Darnold. I'm going Hawks by 10. You had

0:46:37.600,0:46:41.680
a great defense. I think they get a ball on Drake 
May, even though I love what the Pats have done

0:46:41.680,0:46:45.520
this year. Crazy turnar around from Rabbel and 
that team. But yeah, I'm I'm going to stick with

0:46:45.520,0:46:52.160
the NFC on this one. Heads or tails? Coin flip. 
Tails never fails, baby. Lock it in. Okay. Well,

0:46:52.160,0:46:55.760
we'll have to check it out after this is 
published and see if it did fail or not. So,

0:46:55.760,0:46:59.520
Phil, thank you so much. We appreciate it. Thank 
you for joining me today, man. Awesome catching

0:46:59.520,0:47:02.720
up with you and and can't wait to do it again 
soon. Yeah, man. Thank you for having me on.